National Energy Database / Erroneous Transfers - any experts here?

ChasingtheWelshdream

I am tearing my hair out and trying to escalate a complaint with the Ombudsman, but am so far having a deadlock letter refused. In the meantime, can anyone help with this (admittedly deliberately vague) query?

If there was an Erroneous Transfer to company A (admitted by A and with possible fraudulent activity by a broker), and the supply then returned to the correct supplier (B), what would the national database show for the time period in question? Who is responsible for billing during the 'erroneous' period?

Company A state there are no accounts to discuss and B are responsible. (They may have billed another person incorrectly - it is rather a long saga)

Company B state they cannot generate a bill for that period because the 'national database' shows Company A were supplying the property.

My argument is that A had no legal authority to supply the property (proven and admitted), so billing should come from B. B state that A are the only ones who can provide a bill.

I am going around in circles with both companies. It is a business supply so presumably normal consumer rights to do not apply, but I am questioning what both companies are saying.

luci

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6673252/national-energy-database-erroneous-transfers-any-experts-here

I believe you don't actually need to have a deadlock letter. If it's 8 weeks since you lodged a complaint, you can still go to the ombudsman.

ChasingtheWelshdream

It has not reached 8 weeks yet, so the Ombudsman advised I could request a deadlock letter. Company A are refusing. Or to be more accurate, ignoring my request and providing increasingly strange responses to my direct requests.

Today, they stated they are in possession of an audio recording between myself and them, confirming that I agreed to all T&Cs. I have never called them…

It is a rather strange situation, most aptly described as a love triangle between two energy companies, two unconnected small businesses, and one rather dodgy broker, of who we have no name or knowledge. I am hoping the Ombudsman can investigate ASAP and am going around in circles in the meantime.

It may hinge on whatever this database is, who provides the data, and what happens if that data is wrong.

luci

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82041367#Comment_82041367

You can make a Subject Access Request to get a copy of the audio recording.

ChasingtheWelshdream

Thanks, I have already requested this and all information held on me (which should only comprise of written correspondence). An audio recording simply cannot exist, unless it has been fabricated which is surely too far fetched.

I am just trying to understand what this national database is that both companies refer to, and from which they both quote conflicting information.

squirrelpie

I am just trying to understand what this national database is that both
companies refer to, and from which they both quote conflicting
information.

AIUI if you want to find your electricity supplier, you ask your DNO. Google's AI says "Your Distribution Network Operator (DNO) finds your electricity supplier by accessing the Meter Point Administration Service (MPAS) database. By searching this central system using your property’s full address or postcode, the DNO can match your meter to the currently registered energy supplier." I suppose the database may also hold a record of previous suppliers.

The "database" is apparently actually a federated database held separately by the DNOs. There's some explanation at https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/mpas

MWT

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82041373#Comment_82041373

An audio recording simply cannot exist, unless it has been fabricated which is surely too far fetched.

Not completely unheard of …

As your are a business they do not need written/signed agreement from you, audio is legal.

So have they ever called you if you didn't call them and is it possible you said 'yes' at some point during a call even if it was in answer to a question like 'Is that Mr x?' …or 'can you hear me Ok?' …

ChasingtheWelshdream

@squirrelpie I am aware of the DNO, my question is that both company A and company B are quoting this database with different answers.

@MWT, No, I have never called them, they have never called me.

I rent a business unit. The previous tenant vacated (supplied by company B). At that point, billing responsibility returned to the landlord during the void period until I took on the tenancy. The End of Tenancies process were completed correctly by the tenant and landlord, who have confirmation in writing.

Two days after the tenant vacated, a random rogue broker appears to moved the supply to company A, using details of a completely unrelated other business, who are based at a different address and no connection whatsoever. The landlord did not have any communication from A or B so was completely unaware of the change. We only discovered when I commenced the tenancy and contacted A to start a contract, at which point we were told that B were the suppliers.

The other business only became aware when they started receiving email correspondence from company B, so they have been fighting to have that cancelled. It is not even an address or meter mix-up, as they were not trying to change suppliers for their premises at all.

In the same period, company A could not commence my contract as B kept blocking the transfer, due to it being under contract to this unrelated business.

That has now all been cancelled and the supply is back with company A. The problem is, A state they can't bill myself or the landlord as 'database says no'. B state the database also says no.

B have been sending increasingly conflicting responses, ranging from 'we can't talk to you as you don't have an account', to 'we can find no information for you, you have never had an account' and lately 'we have an audio recording of your conversations confirming you agreed to all T&Cs and the current contract is valid.

In all of this company B are refusing to provide any information other than the above. We do not know who this broker was and how they managed to start a contract for an unrelated company, by stating they are at my address. All the meter information relates to my unit, that has never been in question, but this other company has never been involved. As they are under contract correctly themselves in their own premises, it is not even a meter mix-up where they were trying to move supplies and somebody mis-keyed something.

I take a very dim view of brokers having had experiences of their constant aggressive sales calls and would never engage with them.

squirrelpie

@squirrelpie I am aware of the DNO, my question is that both company A and company B are quoting this database with different answers.

Presumably they have asked about different dates then. Why don't you contact the DNO/MPAS and explain why you need the details and over what period and see what they say (the link I gave explains that you can contact them)?

If B say they have a recording, then as already suggested you can use a SAR to get a copy. They will either produce it or admit they don't have a recording.

IIUC you're saying that neither A nor B want to bill you for the disputed period. So while I accept it would be nice to achieve a neat solution and finish with it, I don't see why you have to. Put some money aside ready for whenever a bill does arrive, and ignore the issue for now.

ChasingtheWelshdream

Both companies have been asked about the same dates with very specific questions and timelines. Company B even state they have no record of company A attempting to transfer the supply back, even though I have in writing from them, that they had blocked the transfer 3 times due to the 'contract' in place.

I can try contacting the DNO and see if they can answer the supply questions, even if they can't tell me any details about the persons involved.

Whilst it is true that I am currently paying neither A or B, with business utilities, the costs are much higher when you are not in contract. My contract with A could not commence due to company B and this rogue broker's shenanigans. If/when a bill does materialise, I want to ensure that I am not made to pay the higher out-of-contract rates for the interim period.

Company A are also causing issues by cancelling my account and setting up a new one in the previous tenant's name. No explanation as to why. We are both exasperated and are getting no logical responses.

Qyburn

I don't sesee why you can't name the companies. There's a chance someone on here will have some insight if we know who you're dealing with.