Transferring S&S ISA from T212 to Investengine

topyam

Requested a transfer. T212 have emailed to say I need to sell my investments. Is this normal? Just wanna check?

masonic

I don't think InvestEngine support in specie transfers (and in any case often have only the USD versions of popular ETFs), so likely yes in this case.

Edit: Apparently they do support in specie for ISAs providing you are transferring ETFs they support, see

https://help.investengine.com/hc/en-gb/articles/29949313884701-Do-you-support-in-specie-transfers

so check if your current holdings at T212 exactly match the investments IE have available.

topyam

I am invested in VFEG Vanguard FTSE Emerging Markets Acc

Both T212 and InvestEngine have this

Is the issue that it is transferring from T212 to InvestEngine?

masonic

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82041366#Comment_82041366

I'm assuming the transfer form from InvestEngine allowed you to request a transfer of investments and residual cash rather than a cash transfer and that's what you did, and both providers say they support that.

I can't see any good reason for that being a problem. A few years ago the FCA introduced some quite strict rules on providers requiring them to support in specie transfers. If T212 insists on you having to sell, then I'd suggest to make a note of the sale price and the repurchase price and if you suffer a loss while out of the market claim it back via a complaint.

WastedWords

I suspect it is because T212 use Euroclear and Investengine use Crest (now owned by Euroclear but never the twain shall meet).

masonic

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82041474#Comment_82041474

HL use CREST, but I was able to do an in specie transfer of ETFs from HL to T212. It may be the reason, but it is not an excuse.

WastedWords

HL use both, as does ii, Aj Bell and IBKR. IE are exclusively Crest, T212 are exclusively Euroclear.

To move in-specie between T212 & IE, you have to go via a broker that uses both.

masonic

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82042343#Comment_82042343

Interesing, HL provides some information here that mentions "CREST (Euroclear)", which implies CREST (owned by Euroclear) rather than CREST and Euroclear. Also, section A14 of their T&Cs, "dealing in Shares", mentions only CREST:

"We use the UK Central Securities Depository – CREST – for settlement. The trading rates we quote are for CREST-settled trades. If it ceases to be possible for us to settle a stock through CREST, you accept that we may have to use alternative dealing facilities to sell and/or we may levy an increased charge for selling.

There may be instances where CREST ceases to support the settlement of a stock without prior notice
to us (or we are not provided with sufficient information in time by them) and as such we are unable to notify you of this. In such circumstances, we will not be liable to you for any loss suffered."

How does one determine who uses which depositories?

It seems like the best course of action for the OP is to remain ignorant of these technical details, agree under protest to complete a cash transfer, and then raise a complaint if there is any reduction in the number of shares that can be purchased on the other side.

WastedWords

I have no idea how we can determine who uses which depository. I did find my correspondence with T212 when a first came across the issue with an attempted AJBell to T212 transfer and this is what they said at the time:

"Each stock needs to be settled between the two brokers. Here, we can't agree on matching settlement instructions with Aj Bell. We can settle the transfer via the European depository Euroclear, but AJ Bell can only do that via the UK depository CREST.
The two are separate depositories. From what we know Euroclear also owns CREST, but that doesn't mean they are the same. If we place our instructions and send them via Euroclear, and AJ Bell do the same but through CREST, we will not match on the market."

Contrary to my earlier comment, I'm not sure if AJ Bell use both now.