See Tickets challenging section 75 for cancelled event

Okell

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82031729#Comment_82031729

1 But what is the effect of that?

2 If See Tickets is acting as the agent of the organiser/promoter, is payment to See tickets any different from payment direct to the organiser/promoter for the purposes of a s75 D-C-S link?

3 Is SEE tickets in breach of its own terms anyway by not refunding the OP?

sJanes

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82031782#Comment_82031782

By that logic, why should they ever pay out for anything?

sJanes

Having read more about section 75 I see it doesn't cover 'third party sellers'. This seems tenuous since there is no possible way to buy a ticket direct from the event organiser, all sales are through See Tickets (not like a purchase through a resale site), but if those are the rules then those are the rules.

MyRealNameToo

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82031769#Comment_82031769

In the days when S75 was drafted yes, because credit cards were exceptionally rare and what S75 really was there for was like furniture stores where the store sells you the credit and so the bank does know the store very well having entered into agreement to allow them to sell their product and process applications for them.

Credit cards dont however work like that; I can take my Visa card to almost any shop in the world with a card machine and it will work. I pay a market trader in Nauru by card then the chances are I am probably the first ever time the bank has dealt with that company and they certainly dont do any vetting etc.

Instead you have circa 300 acquiring banks in the world, they partner with local/regional banks and they are the ones that vet the Nauru based trader. Can you imagine the process if someone wanted to start accepting cards and had to apply to all 25,000 banks to do so?

QrizB

> Can you imagine the process if someone wanted to start accepting cards and had to apply to all 25,000 banks to do so?

I intentionally glossed over that bit 😂

Even so, somewhere there's a bank that has vetted See Tickets and has decided they're worthy of credit.

A_Geordie

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82032004#Comment_82032004

My responses to your questions in the same order:

1 You have to look at the structure of the arrangement to determine if s75 applies or not.

2 All depends on the arrangement with the promoter and See Tickets. Couple of scenarios:

Scenario A: Customer purchases a ticket via See Ticket's website, the money is paid into See Ticket's bank account. See Tickets then transfers the funds (less any commission) to the promoter. This breaks the DCS chain because a 4th party is introduced and the money isn't directly going to the promoter, See Tickets is the recipient of that money.

Scenario B: Customer purchases a ticket via See Ticket's website and this opens up a new payment window which connects directly to the promoter's payment processing page. The money is paid directly to the promoter's bank account. There is no break in the DCS chain so s75 claim is still available.

Scenario C: Customer purchases a ticket via See Ticket's website, See Tickets uses a third party payment processor to process the transaction. The money is then transferred directly into the promoter's bank account. Again, there is no break in the DCS chain so s75 claim is still available.

3 As See Tickets are an agent of the promoter, the contract is between the customer and the promoter. I don't think the referenced terms suggests that See Tickets would be liable for a refund, they are merely saying that a customer would normally get a refund from the promoter if the event doesn't go ahead.

Ultimately, if s75 isn't available, then the OP needs to pursue the promoter/seller directly.

born_again

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82032102#Comment_82032102

Well given S75 was never designed for credit cards. There is a strong feeling that S75 needs a revamp.

MyRealNameToo

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82032348#Comment_82032348

These days not necessarily, PayPal, SumUp etc dont hold banking licenses but they will give small businesses the ability to take card payments. With PayPal, if you have a compatible phone, you can take your first payment in under 5 minutes from from loading the application screen for a new account.

Presumably SumUp has had its sign up process vetted by WorldPay (UK) and other acquiring banks in other jurisdictions that it uses to perform the card transactions for it.

So some bank somewhere probably has vetted the process but not necessarily the merchant and your bank most likely hasn't. I wouldnt want to be quoted but I am fairly sure Visa/Mastercard scheme rules say that banks can't decline transactions off hand simply because they dont know the merchant. The networks make most their money from transaction fees and so want to encourage as wide/frictionless use as possible hence saying banks can't be picky (genuine fraud concerns, sanctions etc are obviously different)

CCA S75 is a relic of a different time and makes no logical sense in how credit functions today but then laws dont have to make logical sense, its still a breach of the Licensing Act 1872 to be drunk in public (including in a pub) or to operate a cow with punishment being up to 1 month in prison. So in theory if the owner came down from his flat above to get another bottle of wine whilst the pub was closed but he was drunk he could be locked up for a month.