Intrum Letter claiming I owe money

Ectophile

Ignoring them is always an option. The only thing you shouldn't ignore is a claim letter from the high court. And if they are bluffing, they won't go that far.

A_Geordie

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6669675/intrum-letter-claiming-i-owe-money

Do you live at another address to your relative?

Do you think this debt might relate to a credit or non-credit agreement?

LochnivarUK

I do live at a different address. I believe that the only possibility this debt is mine relates to an unpaid unauthorised overdraft to a bank from approximately 27 years ago when I was a student and didn't manage my money well one year, although if it is I felt I paid it on a settlement over 10 -15 years ago (I may be mistaken).
Definitely not non-credit though, never had any non-credit debt.

fatbelly

The prove-it should mean that they give you an original account number and some dates. See what comes back

LochnivarUK

Thanks,

Having re-read the letter it's actually a company called ACI Perch working on behalf of Intrum (probably all the same company).

Should I send the prove-it letter/statute barred letter to both Intrum and ACI (Intrum has three addresses I'm going to send recorded just so they get the message).

Finally, is this an appropriate prove-it letter that doesn't acknowledge the debt?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter

Similarly, is this an appropriate statute barred letter that doesn't acknowledge the debt?

https://nationaldebtline.org/get-information/sample-letters/time-has-run-out-recover-debt-ew/

I appreciate all of you for taking the time to comment with your sage advice.

fatbelly

Our dfw prove-it letter is fine. Does not acknowledge the debt. The ND statute barred letter does. It infers 'this is my debt and I know it's history well enough to state it's statute barred'

If you want a second stage letter that does not acknowledge the debt we have one of those on debt free wannabe and i will link to it in a min. It's the hybrid letter in this thread

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6027755/statute-barred-debts-and-the-limitation-act

A_Geordie

There's a couple of things that can be done here, but how much effort you decide to put into it will be up to you.

First of all, your relative can write back to Intrum and say that the addressee does not live at that address, and to stop sending letters there. That puts Intrum on notice that if they were to consider legal proceedings, then they would have knowledge that your relative's address is an address where you don't reside and should prevent you from receiving an unexpected CCJ should you become unaware of legal proceedings sent to that address.

Given the lapse of time, there's a very good chance the debt is time barred. I agree with fatbelly that a prove it letter should enable you come to the conclusion whether there's any force in Intrum's position but a prove it letter can be as minimal or as detailed as you like it and everyone has their own idea of what the contents of that letter should look like. I prefer the latter option rather than trying to drip feed or receive information piecemeal based on what Intrum prefer to send me as proof.

If I was sending a prove it letter, I'd want to be know the following:

1. The name and address of the original creditor.
2. The original account/agreement number.
3. Evidence that you are legally liable for the debt.
4. Evidence that the debt was assigned to Intrum and the date on which that assignment took place. If the debt was not assigned to Intrum by the original creditor, I would be wanting evidence that the debt had been validly assigned to the previous debt purchaser. If the debt had not been properly assigned, there's potentially a legal issue as to Intrum's legal right to enforce the debt.
5. Provide a copy of the original signed agreement. If the original signed agreement can't be provided, why not.
6. Confirmation of the original debt amount and the date when that amount became due and payable.
7. Evidence of payment history, when the last payment was made, how much and from which bank account number/sort code the payment was made. If it was made using a card, what card number was used.
8. A breakdown of interest, costs or other expenses that have since been added to the principal debt balance.
9. Confirmation from Intrum as to whether they believe this debt is statute barred.
10. If the debt is not considered statute barred, an explanation as to the date when they believe the limitation period began (which must have been within the last 6 years).

I would consider holding off taking the position that the debt is statute barred as you don't have any information to go off and really means you are just throwing it out there without evidence yourself to back it up. Doesn't add any weight and Intrum could just reverse the position and say prove that it is statute barred.

One other optional thing you could do is exercise your data privacy rights to demand that Intrum restrict the processing of your personal data, whilst they investigate your query. In simple terms, they would need to stop using debt collectors or other agencies until they can show that they have a lawful right to process your data to collect the debt. They would have one month to respond either way before they are in breach of the UK GDPR/Data Protection Act 2018 and you could then make a formal complaint to the ICO.

If this is indeed a credit related agreement, then Intrum would be bound by the FCA rules, particularly the CONC rules around debt collection. Failure to comply would cause them to be in breach of the rules and can be reported to the FCA's investigation team, who may or may not act on your complaint.

Finally, as ACI Perch are acting on behalf of Intrum, the reply should go to them initially. they would be obliged to pass on your communication to Intrum to investigate and pause all further demands until the outcome of that investigation/response. If they refuse, then you can make a formal complaint to Intrum directly, with a threat view to going to the Financial Ombudsman and/or reporting them to the FCA's investigation team and/or the ICO.

You may want to make it clear that ACI Perch or Intrum should communicate by email only which is the method of communication you will accept in relation to this matter, unless you are happy for other methods of communication.

LochnivarUK

Thank you Geordie for the extensive reply,

I've updated a hybrid response that Fatbelly kindly linked. There is a bit of too'ing and fro'ing from "I" and "We" which I am reticent to change from the original in case it has any implications but I've also incorporated your very valid questions/points into it. I've also inferred knowledge of the limitation act so that they know the next stage will be a statute barred response without claiming the debt is statute barred at this point.

Could you take a quick look and see if it's appropriate and that I haven't dropped any clangers.

In terms of informing them I do not live at the address, I'm in two minds, on the one hand I have a vulnerable relative living there and on the other I feel it's better to have somewhere that I can receive notifications without giving them anymore knowledge (they aren't sure my email address is correct as I never replied), as I was once attempted to be CCJ'd at a previous address and miraculously caught wind of it at the final hour, defended, got it stayed and then won via appeal with the Ombudsman.

Here's the letter:


<<Date>>
<<Their address details>>


I do not acknowledge any debt to you or any other company or organisation that you claim to be representing.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Reference number :

You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself.

I would point out that we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to HSBC or Intrum.

I am familiar with the Consumer Credit sourcebook of the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) which states the following rules.

"A firm must not ignore or disregard a customer's claim that a debt has been settled or is disputed and must not continue to make demands for payment without providing clear justification and/or evidence as to why the customer's claim is not valid." 7.5.3

"A firm must suspend any steps it takes or its agent takes in the recovery of a debt from a customer where the customer disputes the debt on valid grounds or what may be valid grounds." 7.14.1

"Where a customer disputes a debt on valid grounds or what may be valid grounds, the firm must investigate the dispute and provide details of the debt to the customer in a timely manner." 7.14.3
In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

Furthermore, ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

I would further note that <<based on the information you have supplied, this account would also be statute barred under the Limitation Act 1980>> (thinking of getting rid of this line and going straight to “Under”, inferring that if it is related to me it is 110% statute barred and I know it)


Under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 "an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued".

I would also point out that in their Consumer Credit sourcebook, the Financial Conduct Authority states the following rules:

"...a firm must not attempt to recover a statute barred debt in England, Wales or Northern Ireland if the lender or owner has not been in contact with the customer during the limitation period." 7.15.4

"A firm must not continue to demand payment from a customer after the customer has stated that he will not be paying the debt because it is statute barred." 7.15.8

We would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above accounts unless you can provide evidence of :
(1) proof of my liability regarding this debt.

and



(2) The name and address of the original creditor.



and

(3) The original account/agreement number.



and

(4) Evidence that the debt was assigned to Intrum and the date on which that assignment took place.



and



(5) If the debt was not assigned to Intrum by the original creditor, provide evidence that the debt had been validly assigned to the previous debt purchaser.


and



(6) A copy of the original signed agreement. If the original signed agreement can't be provided, why not?



and

(7) Confirmation of the original debt amount and the date when that amount became due and payable.

and 



(8) Evidence of payment history, when the last payment was made, how much and from which bank account number/sort code the payment was made. If it was made using a card, what card number was used.


and

(9) A breakdown of interest, costs or other expenses that have since been added to the principal debt balance.



and

(10) Confirmation from Intrum as to whether they believe this debt is statute barred. If the debt is not considered statute barred, an explanation as to the date when they believe the limitation period began.



and

(11) proof that the relevant limitation period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, did not accrue.



We await your written confirmation of the above or that this matter is now closed. Otherwise we will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and raising a formal complaint with the FCA regarding your actions (including, but not limited to Ref: 708400.).



Finally, I require ACI-UK Limited (known as "ACI" and all related trading names and/or subsidiaries) adhere to my privacy rights and demand that Intrum restrict the processing of my personal data, whilst they investigate this query. Failure to do so will result in a breach of the UK GDPR/Data Protection Act 2018 and as such will result in a formal complaint to the ICO (including, but not limited to Ref: ZA116228.).

You have one month to respond to this letter as per FCA guidelines and other relevant statutory legislation. 



YOU MUST ALSO TREAT THIS AS A FORMAL COMPLAINT, AND AS SUCH I REQUIRE A COPY OF YOUR COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE AND A RESPONSE TO TAKE TO THE FINANCIAL OMBUDSMAN.

I look forward to your reply.

Sincerely,

<<My name>>.

fatbelly

That letter is really a second stage letter It says 'based on the information you have supplied...' Well they haven't supplied any yet. Don't be in a rush to admit this as your debt. You really don't know that yet. Send a prove-it as Lochnivar also suggests.

LochnivarUK

I've taken out the reference to Statute Barred apart from points 10 and 11 which are generic. Do you think including this doesn't acknowledge the debt?

Is this letter ok in terms of not acknowledging the debt?

Thank you.

Revised Prove-it:

<Date>>

<<Their address details>>

I do not acknowledge any debt to you or any other company or organisation that you claim to be representing.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Reference number :

You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself.

I would point out that we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to HSBC or Intrum.

I am familiar with the Consumer Credit sourcebook of the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) which states the following rules.

"A firm must not ignore or disregard a customer's claim that a debt has been settled or is disputed and must not continue to make demands for payment without providing clear justification and/or evidence as to why the customer's claim is not valid." 7.5.3

"A firm must suspend any steps it takes or its agent takes in the recovery of a debt from a customer where the customer disputes the debt on valid grounds or what may be valid grounds." 7.14.1

"Where a customer disputes a debt on valid grounds or what may be valid grounds, the firm must investigate the dispute and provide details of the debt to the customer in a timely manner." 7.14.3

In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

We would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above accounts unless you can provide evidence of :

(1) proof of my liability regarding this debt.

and

(2) The name and address of the original creditor.

and

(3) The original account/agreement number.

and

(4) Evidence that the debt was assigned to Intrum and the date on which that assignment took place.

and

(5) If the debt was not assigned to Intrum by the original creditor.

and

(6) A copy of the original signed agreement. If the original signed agreement can't be provided, why not?

and

(7) Confirmation of the original debt amount and the date when that amount became due and payable.

and

(8) Evidence of payment history, when the last payment was made, how much and from which bank account number/sort code the payment was made. If it was made using a card, what card number was used.

and

(9) A breakdown of interest, costs or other expenses that have since been added to the principal debt balance.

and

(10) Confirmation from Intrum as to whether they believe this debt is statute barred. If the debt is not considered statute barred, an explanation as to the date when they believe the limitation period began.

and

(11) proof that the relevant limitation period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, did not accrue.

and

Please provide the written evidence or send me written confirmation that this matter is now closed.

Otherwise we will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and raising a formal complaint with the FCA regarding your actions (including, but not limited to Ref: 708400.).

Finally, I require ACI-UK Limited (known as "ACI" and all related trading names and/or subsidiaries) adhere to my privacy rights and demand that Intrum restrict the processing of my personal data, whilst they investigate this query. Failure to do so will result in a breach of the UK GDPR/Data Protection Act 2018 and as such will result in a formal complaint to the ICO (including, but not limited to Ref: ZA116228.). You have one month to respond to this letter as per FCA guidelines and other relevant statutory legislation.

YOU MUST ALSO TREAT THIS AS A FORMAL COMPLAINT, AND AS SUCH I REQUIRE A COPY OF YOUR COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE AND A RESPONSE TO TAKE TO THE FINANCIAL OMBUDSMAN.

I look forward to your reply.

Sincerely,  

<<My name>>.