will and affects

JD118

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82005527#Comment_82005527

3. I GIVE DEVISE AND BEQUEATH all my real and personal property not otherwise disposed of by this my Will or any Codicil hereto unto my Trustees UPON TRUST to sell call in collect and convert the same into money with full power to postpone such sale calling in and conversion for such period as they think proper without being responsible for loss

4. MY Trustees shall out of the moneys to arise from the sale calling in and conversion of my said real and personal property and out of my ready moneys pay my debts and funeral and testamentary expenses Inheritance Tax and/or all duties and taxes and shall stand possessed of the residue of the said moneys and the investments from time to time representing the same and of any part of my estate which remains unsold and unconverted (hereinafter called "my four (as mentioned) shall be living at my death and if more than one in equal shares absolutely.

poseidon1

These clauses indicate that the executors have been charged to sell all the deceased assets ( including the house ) - clause 3.

After meeting all debts, claims, expenses etc , are then required to distribute the resulting residuary cash to the 4 beneficiaries in equal shares - clause 4.

So all 4 beneficiaries have a right to 1/4 of estate residue.

However, crucially within clause 3 the trustees ( executors ) have what seems to be unfettered powers to postpone such sales for as long as they think proper, without being responsible for any loss.

This it seems, could be the executors intial get out of jail free card here, to simply decide to leave the house unsold, and the estate administration incomplete.

However it would undoubtedly be merely kicking the problem down the road, since if and when any of the other non occupying beneficiaries predecease the occupying beneficiary, their descendants will inherit the quarter share of residue (represented by the house ). Those inheritors would then need to decide whether they leave the status quo as is, or pressure the surviving executor/trustees to complete the estate administration to free up their share.

There is the additional issue that if all executors predecease the occupying beneficiary, the executors for the last surviving executor are then left with the problem of the unadministered estate, but perhaps with little or no first hand knowledge of why the matter had been left in limbo.

In view of the above points and despite being perhaps the easy option, the executors deciding to postpone the property sale could be considered irresponsible, especially if nothing is then settled with regard to occupying beneficiary's obligations during the postponement period.

poseidon1

Just to round off my previous post.There is the possible alternative of the 3 beneficiaries varying their right to 1/ 4 of the house 'proceeds', to create an IPDI trust for the occupying beneficiary.

However, for those beneficiaries in receipt of means tested benefit, I see no reason why that should not be similarly be treated as voluntary deprivation of capital, as discussed in the analogous case from the STEP Trust discussion forum below -

https://trustsdiscussionforum.co.uk/t/deed-of-variation-to-create-ipdi/10344

JD118

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82006485#Comment_82006485

It's a, hard one, as the occupyer is tough nut to crack and don't understand the world like normal folk, it's difficult, the person is late fifties, very basic living doesn't even hold a landline or mobile phone, has a few ill health issues and pushed away any social workers whom has offered help, family he only speaks to me and if I turned around and said it's going to be sold, it would be a melt down, as it was my grandparents estate both obviously deceased, took my brother in, I was born like fifteen years later and in a diffrent position,

Me and the other two have made our lifea not souley on benefits two are pensioners of the poor kind and I'm on means tested due to ill health and also my wife has just taken a turn for the worse also,neither of us are home owners, Granted the money side of it would have been nice around 8k each, which would have been declared no issues, but the property as it stands is the headache,

I just can't see a solution, sounds ungrateful but we are not interested in the property, we make sure it's clean and checked, but the money side no,

sheramber

If the house is not sold who will pay the bills and any repairs that might become necessary?

Newly_retired

i am involved in a situation which has similarities, in that an adult grandchild on benefits is still living in their deceased grandparents’ property, which ought to have been sold and the proceeds distributed to four beneficiaries, including the occupant, in accordance with the will. The grandparent died 13 years ago. There have been no repercussions from the DWP about this situation- they have no reason to be aware of the circumstances. The beneficiary has received no money from the bequest, but has been supported by other beneficiaries who have helped with some maintenance costs for the property. There was no Deed of Variation. The estate has simply not been administered.

One main difference for the OP is that none of the other beneficiaries seems to be in a position to help financially with the maintenance of the property. It also would appear that the occupant will be in need of support in all sorts of other ways, given his lack of competence.

Objectively, as an outsider, it seems that the best way forward would be for the occupant to move into some sort of sheltered housing or supported living accommodation, and for the property to be sold, but since he has previously rejected support from social services, I doubt this could be achieved.

If it were to happen, all the beneficiaries would be obliged to report a change of financial circumstances to DWP. If their inheritance is enough to lead to loss of benefits, they would be expected to use the money to pay rent etc but could reapply for UC once their capital falls below the threshold. Pension Credit works a bit differently.

JD118

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82006540#Comment_82006540

The bills are paid by the occupier general DIY gets out taken by another family member,

JD118

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82006669#Comment_82006669

Yes very similar, just to update there is only four in the situation, initially I think we was in shock to be mentioned first off, then got told of the money side which would have helped at least got the property in a position of declutter etc, obviously there is no way forward, at this moment, we have been like happy to be mentioned for the money side and just not prepared for the property side, I'm sure being on any benefit, with a share of a house regardless of value and no income of it, it's just worthless unless sold,

So how do we proceed tell the solicitors to keep it in hold,

Newly_retired

In what way are solicitors involved so far?

JD118

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82007436#Comment_82007436

Basically called us in, spoke about the found last will and testament, before that another family member who is not now featured on this will, was taking through the probate motion but that's stopped due to this,