Do I need probate/letters of administrauon for a small estate?

brumbill

my father recently passed away and we hadnt spoken for a long time for various reasons. I am now trying to sort out his estate.

As far as I am aware he had no will. He was in a care home when he passed, and had none of his own possessions there. He had been taken from a housing association flat to the care home with items pour into storage. He did not own any properties.

I have tracked down the two bank accounts he had and contacted the respective pensions companies he had private pensions with, and combined he has around £37,000, although this will not quite cover his outstanding debts to the care home, storage and unpaid bills.

Unfortunately his flat was by all accounts quite a mess and dirty. In storage he had some old damaged furniture which probably should have gone straight to the tip, likewise some old clothes although there were a few precious items like a watch and ring, though these will be worth probably £100. He also had an old car (old not vintage!) which may be worth £500-600.

his banks have been happy to grant me access to funds as the amount falls well beneath their probate thresholds. Despite the lack of value of the few other items he owned, do I still need to apply for letters of administration as they are physical assets that need valuing? They will basically all have to go straight from storage to the local recycling centre, they will not be sold for anything.

thank you for any advice on this. I’m very confused and have been unable to get through to citizens advice for help despite many numerous attempts

tetrarch

Sorry for your loss. Loss of a parent, even estranged is a significant life event

It would appear from your description that the value of your late Father's estate is actually negative with the Care Home debts outweighing any assets that he has.

Can you expand on what debts are owed to whom. It may be that the Care Home fees (if Council-owed) may be irrecoverable if below the savings thresholds allowed.

You could just walk away from the situation as you have no official duties as there is no executor as there is no will. It is possible however that there may be some residual value in the estate to which you may be entitled

Regards

Tet

brumbill

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81978733#Comment_81978733

thanks Tet

how does the savings threshold allowance work? I’m very confused about how care homes and costs work, it seems if you have nothing then it’s all paid for but if you have something then it all goes on those costs!

other debts include council tax, the storage costs mentioned before (and probably disposal costs) and anything else I may uncover

Keep_pedalling

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81978825#Comment_81978825

That is not correct. to be fully self funding you need assets over £23,250. If savings are between £14,250 and £23,250 there will be some contribution based on deemed income for each £250 over £14,250. Once savings fall to £14,250 then that is disregarded and apart from a contribution from income the LA will provided full funding.

In theory therefore savings should never fall below £14,250 but that does need someone to inform the LA that the savings are getting low so that a new financial assessment can be made.

brumbill

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81978952#Comment_81978952

thank you - from looking at the finances I can see, my father didn’t have savings as such and certainly anything he had was below £14250. What seems to have happened is that his pensions (dwp and private) have been paid into his account and obviously not spent, and these have built up over time which have taken him over that threshold.

however no payment has been taken for any care at the same time, so the amount owning has mounted up at a quicker rate than any savings accumulated, if that makes sense.

I don’t even know how to go about working out if the calculations for care are correct

and I still don’t understand if I need letters of authority to process everything that is in storage

RAS

You don't yet know if the estate is fully solvent. And the general rule is not to administer insolvent estates.

You don't want to be "intermeddling" with an insolvent estate so you need some advice from the Social Services regarding the the care fees.

Would the entire cost of the other debts exceed £14,250?

You certainly do not need probate or LOA to manage an estate this small. The general view is that household goods are valued at £100-£1000 in total.

brumbill

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81979062#Comment_81979062

thank you for this

so I basically need to find out how much money there is in the estate and then what debts there are and if the estate turns out to be insolvent then I’d need to get legal advice/support?

without wanting to be crude, can the cost of any legal advice or support be taken from the estate? I feel rather forced into taking this on as the care home and social worker essentially insisted but I don’t have any money myself to pay for any legal support with it

as it stands, I think I would be looking at a potential monetary value within the estate of between £24-26000 (I put £37 earlier but it should have been 27!) but care fees of £21000, unpaid council tax of nearly £600, storage costs for around 18 months (which I would assume will eat up the bulk of the remainder of the estate) and that’s before paying to dispose of the items in storage and any other debts that are yet to be uncovered

RAS

You have no responsibility to do this at all. If you decline, then the local authority will just sort it out.

Obviously they'd rather someone in the family took it on but it is not your responsibility.

Can you even see what's in the storage? Do you want anything from there like photos? Generally by the way, going through a flat or house and disposing of junk is not intermeddling and we advise people to collect paperwork in a carrier bag or two and offer to the creditors.

If they can't give you a clear idea of the debts, I'd be inclined to just walk. Write advising that you don't have the resources to take on admin and let them sort it out.

Keep_pedalling

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81979054#Comment_81979054

What should have happened in that situation is the LA pay his care costs and he should have been paying the LA a contribution from his income, so anything owed should to the LA not directly to the care home, so I don’t really know what has happened here.

brumbill

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81979196#Comment_81979196

oh I may well be getting my wires crossed and the bill may be from the LA it’s just they refer to it as care home fee

the way I understand it is that all weekly income is taken if the savings are under the 14250 threshold, aside from a small weekly allowance:

“If the local council is paying towards your care, you will usually have to contribute most of your income, apart from a small Personal Expenses Allowance. This is currently £30.65 a week in England (2025/26 rate).”

so you can basically keep £1700 a year and lose the rest of your income

brumbill

I have a list of what’s in storage but it’s a long way from where I live to be able to go and view it - probably about 4 hour drive away. There are a number of ‘boxes’ listed which I assume will store a lot of paperwork and random things found in the flat, but the furniture etc has equally little monetary or sentimental value (I know that sounds harsh)