Bank Fraud

HisRym0

Hi - needing some direction with my current case. 2 Weeks ago , i noticed money being taken from my account on betting sites. I notified my bank immediately to be advised the transactions were pending and before they could not act on this , the money physically had to leave my account?? Is this normal ??? So, i waited until this did and then contacted the bank again - they basically accused me of lying as I had a betting account (not the one associated with the money being taken) and a credit card account ?? Again is this normal ?
I was told it would be 48hrs and sorted, then on another call i was advised to contact the betting site for their help and then was told it would be another 5-6 working days to now being informed it could take up to 21 working days.
I contacted the betting site to be advised they had no record of the transactions and also reported to online Police Fraud - have 2 case numbers, advised the bank to again hit a wall as they don't seem to care.
I am at a loss as i feel my bank has seriously failed me and trying to discuss with someone is hard work - can anyone help direct me at all and if I doing something wrong ?
Worried as will hit my unarranged overdraft soon and then the bank will be quick to charge me - so i am stressed!!! TIA

Exodi

HisRym0 

I notified my bank immediately to be advised the transactions were pending and before they could not act on this , the money physically had to leave my account?? Is this normal ???

I believe this is right, a pending transaction means the money has yet to be taken - the company doesn't always take the money (for example, I notice this if I purchase something but refund it straight away). It makes sense that the bank won't look into alleged stolen funds before the funds are stolen. I think unfortunately the police operate with similar principles (e.g. they ask you to contact when the crime has been committed).

HisRym0

So, i waited until this did and then contacted the bank again - they basically accused me of lying as I had a betting account (not the one associated with the money being taken) and a credit card account ?? Again is this normal ?

I'm going to sound like I'm sponsored by the bank (I wish), but I suspect with gambling in particular there is a very high fraud rate, where customers gamble away their life savings to later call the bank and pretend it wasn't them. That doesn't help you, but it explains why the bank might be suspicious, particularly if you gamble already.

HisRym0

I contacted the betting site to be advised they had no record of the transactions

That's very strange, who was the bookmaker?

I'm confused what the end goal was by the scammer here. I was a matched bettor a few years ago (made ~£10k in profit, thanks bookies!), so I know due to anti-money laundering they only allow you to withdraw money back to the same payment method you used to make the deposit (unless there is some clever workaround here I'm not aware of).

Unfortunately for you and the nature of issue, it at least looks suspicious.

Out of interest, do you know how you were compromised? I'd be requesting a new card and reviewing the security of my online accounts ASAP. As far as I'm aware, the bank isn't automatically responsible for any compromises, it's if they reasonably should have noticed or had reasonable prevention measures in place.

HisRym0

I have cancelled the card and do not have accounts with PP & BF , and my transactions show it was from my debit card. I certainly never done this nor gained any winnings - the fraud team dealing with it are pretty useless too. And yes agree with you about security on my accounts and will be moving all bank accounts once this is resolved.

friolento

How were the deposits made - by debit card or by bank transfer?

HisRym0

debit card

Exodi

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81965186#Comment_81965186

By online accounts I meant, as well as your bookmaker accounts, to consider reviewing the security of your email/banking/etc. Changing your passwords at minimum. Do you share a computer with anyone? Does anyone have biometrics access on your phone?

I don't see that you need to move bank (though I understand you feel aggrieved), I expect that depending on how this happened, most banks would respond in the same manner. Unfortunately for you, the circumstances are highly suspicious.

grumpy_codger

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81965167#Comment_81965167

I'm confused what the end goal was by the scammer here. I was a matched bettor a few years ago (made ~£10k in profit, thanks bookies!), so I know due to anti-money laundering they only allow you to withdraw money back to the same payment method you used to make the deposit (unless there is some clever workaround here I'm not aware of).

AFAIK the most common way is to lose this money, say by playing poker, to your accomplice.

Also, if you gamble and win, only the deposit amount has to be withdrawn to the original payment method. The winnings can be withdrawn to some other account.

HisRym0

They must have lost then as nothing has come back into my account sadly ! The battle continues ……………….

Exodi

grumpy_codger

AFAIK the most common way is to lose this money, say by playing poker, to your accomplice.

I wasn't aware of this and stand corrected -you're right, that would work. I didn't think about using two accounts simultaneously. I think I'm perhaps not cut out to be a scammer!

You could also pseudo-arbitrage - e.g. scammer bets on 'heads' on their account and 'tails' on yours, and repeats until the winnings are all on their account. In practice, given that Betfair is also the world's biggest exchange, it would be very easy to 'back' one outcome on a sporting event on one account and 'lay' the same outcome on the other account to guarantee one account always wins.

grumpy_codger

Also, if you gamble and win, only the deposit amount has to be withdrawn to the original payment method. The winnings can be withdrawn to some other account.

Admittedly I haven't matched betted for a few years now, but are you sure this is true? I don't remember this being the case when I was active.

HisRym0

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81965236#Comment_81965236

Exodi Posts:4,575 Forumite 

 

 

 

Today at 10:32AM edited Today at 11:26AM

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81965186#Comment_81965186

By online accounts I meant, as well as your bookmaker accounts, to consider reviewing the security of your email/banking/etc. Changing your passwords at minimum. Do you share a computer with anyone? Does anyone have biometrics access on your phone?

I don't see that you need to move bank (though I understand you feel aggrieved), I expect that depending on how this happened, most banks would respond in the same manner. Unfortunately for you, the circumstances are highly suspicious.

Know what you don't

Suspicious on me you mean ? Like this is intentional from my side ? Thats how i feel that i am under scrutiny and in some ways that feels worse than being robbed as i now have to justify my honesty

eskbanker

I notified my bank immediately to be advised the transactions were pending and before they could not act on this , the money physically had to leave my account?? Is this normal ???

Yes - when you see a debit card transaction showing as 'pending', this signifies that your bank has issued a merchant with an authorisation, which is effectively an irrevocable guarantee to their bank that the funds will be settled, so it isn't possible to intervene during this process.

they basically accused me of lying as I had a betting account (not the one associated with the money being taken) and a credit card account ?? Again is this normal ?

The fact that you have a betting account with a different company doesn't in itself mean that you authorised these transactions, although may contribute to suspicion, but no idea what the credit card comment relates to.

The bank is liable to reimburse any unauthorised payments by the end of the next working day unless certain exceptions apply:

In an unauthorised payment claim, your bank can only refuse to refund you if:

You authorised the payment, or

You acted fraudulently, or

You failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the payment. 

The key issue is likely to be what their records show regarding the authorisation of the transactions, but ultimately the onus is on them to prove that you authorised them rather than you having to show that you didn't. If the card details were all provided (full PAN, CVV, expiry date) then this does beg the question of how they were obtained by fraudsters, and they may also check other factors such as IP addresses (if available to them).