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ETFs
Comments
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The original LS series had lower limits on the largest holding. Based on the above, the global series is significantly higher, so the concentration limit does look like a red herring for fund-of-funds. I wonder if these tiny allocations to single country bond funds and other holdings have been added over time for the sake of efficiency.
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Well the same question remains - what is the reason you want that particular theme? When you know that, you should be able to pick the fund which has the constituents that best align with your reason.
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Here is a Vanguard video and transcript on the topic:
The devil is very much in the detail here. When is the NAV calculated? Vanguard says it is calculated at the end of the business day. Would that be the LSE trading day? They do not say. We would need the FX rate for the same time. How do you value VEVE at the end of the LSE trading day, when the eastern markets are closed? It is all very murky. As they say in the video, this is not just an ETF specific problem. It is just that the problem is more visible with ETFs.
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I'm inclined to believe it's rather too much of a coincidence that the prices align for that snapshot for the times to be offset. NAV is always going to be somewhat murky for a global fund where there likely isn't any timepoint where all markets are open.
It's an interesting point that the tendency to deviate from NAV is proportional to the liquidity of the underlying assets, with bonds being somewhat more problematic than large cap equities. But as you say, it's not just an ETF problem, so it may not be avoidable by switching to a different type of investment.
Probably all not worth worrying about for the long term investor, who will experience a drag on returns driven mostly by ongoing charges rather than one-off pricing anomalies.
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Indeed, I don't like the use of the term OEIC to mean anything other than the UK company structure (I prefer the name of ICVC when referring to the generic investment vehicle) and in fairness to me I have only referred to others under the "OEIC" fudge with the ICVC bit tagged on to hopefully help direct people to a more accurate description. Others, who perhaps should be more aware, are not so precise unfortunately (eg see under legal tag here there are lots more).
Anyway, my point, which has been a little lost perhaps, is the typical UK retail investor should note that non UK-domicile funds (irrespective of them being ETFs or just plain old Fs). may have additional (ERI) tax reporting requirements (and limits on the FSCS too as you note) - it’s a domiciliary attribute of the fund rather than a buying/selling mechanism one.0 -
The aim of the forum is to allow people to share their views and knowledge on a whole range of matters. It may be that everyone doesn’t always agree on points but that’s the nature of these things. As the forum guidelines say “It's OK to disagree, but be civil, keep your tone friendly and don't be aggressive or make personal attacks on other members of the community.” (ref )
Asking if I have a short term memory issue would seem to be contrary to these rules and general ethos of the forum.
On the point raised, and sorry to have to do this, but the wording OEIC is not the same as “OEIC”. The quotes are there to suggest that the term used is not precise (I follow with a more precise definition to help). Such things can be seen when there is a need to highlight that the term used, although perhaps common, is not quite correct. Perhaps in the expression Koala “bear” (they are not really members of the bear family) or even “wing” mirror when the mirror is actually located on a car door.
There’s a bit more on this use of quotes in this way here .
A little bit of a tangent for sure.
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You denied having posted that "ETFs are a subset of OEICs". You said "I'm struggling to find where I posted this more than no times 😊 ".
I pointed out that you had posted it THREE TIMES in the same thread.
And for completeness ….
You also stated, referring to my earlier postings, "I did find ones that said " When I started out using OEICs I was nearly caught out by the fact that some of theirs are Ireland domiciled." and "Vanguard has 22 of Irish OEICs", which I suspect is not entirely correct 😉".
You were wrong about that too.
When I started investing Vanguard had 22 Irish domiciled OEICs. Your suspicion that this was "not entirely correct" is based on your own lack of knowledge.
The number of Vanguard Irish domiciled OEICs has risen since then and is now 26.
No one needs lectures from you about how to post on the forum. The moderators police the forum, not you.
It would be less disingenuous that you pray in aid the "ethos of the forum" and partially quote the forum rules if you hadn't lied about what you've posted within the same thread and posted that lie with a grinning face to try to bait another poster. Or searched for another poster's factually correct postings and quoted them, sneering that you "suspect" they were "not entirely correct", and adding a winking face.
And your statement "but the wording OEIC is not the same as "OEIC" " is just nonsense, as is the word salad that follows it. Neither justify or validate your postings.
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As @Masonic also mentioned "OEIC is a UK-domiciled legal structure, while ETF defines a fund's trading mechanism. For Vanguard ETFs, the legal entity is a PLC not an OEIC." As such the "not entirely correct" comment meant you didn't actually have any Irish domiciled OEICs because there is no such thing. It's as benign as that.
Linked to this, that's why the expression ETFs are a subset of OEICs is incorrect and why I didn't write this. As per the attached , the quotes are key to the understanding rather than nonsense. The run on comment of well, investment companies with variable capital was added for precision.
Hope that helps clear up things.
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Here's a list of the 26 Vanguard Irish domiciled OEICs that you say don't exist:
Emerging Markets Bond Fund
Emerging Markets Stock Index Fund
ESG Developed Europe Index Fund
ESG Developed World All Cap Equity Index Fund
ESG Emerging Markets All Cap Equity Index Fund
ESG Global Corporate Bond Index Fund
Euro Government Bond Index Fund
Euro Investment Grade Bond Index Fund
Global Bond Index Fund
Global Core Bond Fund
Global Corporate Bond Index Fund
Global Credit Bond Fund
Global Government Bond Index Fund
Global Short-Term Bond Index Fund
Global Short-Term Corporate Bond Index Fund
Global Small-Cap Index Fund
Global Strategic Bond Fund
Japan Government Bond Index Fund
Japan Stock Index Fund
Pacific ex-Japan Stock Index Fund
U.K. Government Bond Index Fund
U.K. Investment Grade Bond Index Fund
U.K. Short-Term Gilt Index Fund
U.K. Short-Term Investment Grade Bond Index Fund
U.S. Government Bond Index Fund
U.S. Investment Grade Credit Index Fund
None of them are ETFs. Some are described as ICVCs, which is an alternative name for an OEIC,
And anticipating that you'll post some tripe disagreeing with that, here's some help for you from WIKI:
"An open-ended investment company (OEIC, pron. /ɔɪk/) or investment company with variable capital (ICVC) is a type of open-ended collective investment formed as a corporation under the Open-Ended Investment Company Regulations 2001 in the United Kingdom. The terms "OEIC" and "ICVC" are used interchangeably with different investment managers favouring one over the other. In the UK OEICs are the preferred legal form for new open-ended investment over the older unit trust."
As for your second paragraph, that's just a repetition of the 'OEIC is not the same as "OEIC" ' meaningless nonsense that you tried to peddle in your last posting, accompanied by another, slightly redrafted, word salad.
It was rubbish the first time you posted it and it still is.
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In fact, the FCA refers to the Irish PLC umbrella fund as an "Offshore OEIC":
The main criterion for being an OEIC is, according to regulation 3(1) of the UK OEIC Act, an authorisation order from the FCA, with further requirements listed in regulation 15: . Strictly such a fund must have its head office in the UK. This is why the Irish fund is "Recognised" rather than "Authorised", the vagaries of which are discussed at:
This umbrella company is recognised under the Temporary Marketing Permissions Regime as an EEA UCITS overseas fund, so it is not incorporated under the Open-Ended Investment Company Regulations 2001 (or its predecessor Act, given that it was formed in 1998). It would previously have been using the EU passporting regime.
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