SSEN Connections

Mossie56

A few years ago I requested my electric meter be moved. I lived in a farmhouse and the meter was in a barn belonging to someone else. I was initially told because I paid the bill for both meters it was my supply and moving the supply cable at a cost of 500 pounds. Paid it, then was told that I would have to install a completely separate supply at 6 thousand pounds plus ground works and 18 month delay. And the threat of a new transformer. Bigger than 50kv. Anyone else come across this situation.

Robin9

After the meter had been moved to the farmhouse was the barn left without a supply ?

Are you now wanting to provide a supply to the barn ? Does it still belong to someone else ?

Scot_39

So many unknowns, so many potential possibilities as to why quote changed dramatically. Some thoughts rather than experience.

Still not sure re the you paying for the 2nd meter in someones else's barn bit of this - were they both supplying your house ? - but yes it can certainly happen after properties split - that your meter becomes located in "a n other's" property. (Even on some new builds meter access sometimes needs access to neighbours properties even if mounted in own walls)

Does the barn have another meter - or feed from another nearby farm house etc ?

Your new connection requirement might be changing due to changes to limits on new "domestic" connections. By requesting a moved meter - they might only be able to do so in compliance with current standards. And if so once you open the "bottle and let the genie out" - you find that things aren't as simple as they might have seemed sadly.

So begs the question - can you and the barn owner live with the status quo - or is it too late "to put the genie back in the bottle" as it were ?

Have you been assessed as needing more power - than your old supply capable of - if not now - an electric heating - if not already - or EV upgrade may well push you over in coming years ?

Are you now being expected to supply both the house and the barn (despite it belonging to a n other) with at least new standard "domestic" capacity (that 2nd meter thing still ringing alarm bells) ?

In past some larger homes actually had 2 DNO single phase feeds and meters - not just one single phase feed - or the new 3 phase standard ? So were barn and house separate before OR as above they might have just shared a single phase cable ?

Have they mentioned in the quote whether they are talking about a single phase new connection or a 3 phase new connection ?

Standard domestic DNO fuse ratings are now supplied as single phase 80A max (down from upto 100A max in past) or 3 phase at 60A rating if over a power limit for the single phase.

In reality many older installs only had 60A incoming fuses - some very old installs maybe even just 30A - and if low - often those would be taken from a shared single phase feed from DNO street or pole cabling - two certainly - maybe even 3 neighbours (my parents old home was 3 before a neighbour needed an EV WC - but the supplier refused to touch his "crumbling" incoming supply - so needed the DNO who rather than doing all 3 at once sadly only did the one needing the upgrade) off of one street tap / cable.

So often when fuses uprated - shared connection needs to be replaced - back to street or pole cabling / transformer in your case potentially - given the old shared homes ideally each the full new say 80A.

As to transformer ratings - UK Voltages were unified with EU 230V+/-10% - in reality didnt change from old 240V nominal - so roughly the same - now 253V nominal max. So taking max and current ratings above

Single phase 80Ax253V = 20.2 kVA

(In reality they part justified the cut - as said an 80A fuse would take the old 100A for upto 4 hours - so a 25% margin - which the supply needs to be capable of - cables, pole mounted ? transformer in your case etc)

Three phase - 60Ax3*253V = 45.5 kVA - so yes that might well be very marginal for a 50kVA rated transformer (the smallest in one supplier to UK's DNO's range of 240V output 3 phase pole mounted transformers (PMT)).

If say applied the 25% margin argument on the 80A for old 100A single phase fuse ratings - that would be more like 25.3kVA per single phase - 57 kVA three phase.

And even if your only using one phase of a 3 phase - it needs to be capable of the higher rating - so potentially 75kVA plus total.

Are you by any chance upgrading to green tech - EV / ASHP / GSHP - there used to be some discounts applicable to certain connection charges if were ? (But in town thats normally not involving the shared transformers or very long street to home cable runs)

If say just needing say a new 7.2kW 32A EV charger capability thats taking you over - the single phase 80A power limit - would capping it to 3.6kW / 16A take you under (many have dip switches to do so) - or fitting one with dynamic load balancing - that will do so dynamically - monitoring the homes total demand ?

Do you share the current transformer - is it pole mounted - is the feed to barn or house buried or overhead currently ?

The second meter - has it and it's supply been removed already - if not is the second meter driven by its own single phase "street / pole" supply and it's own DNO fuse - or is the existing cable split between meters ?

Do you know the fuse ratings for the existing DNO incoming connection or connections for those meters ?

Mossie56

The situation was created by a far from honest solicitors firm. The house and barn were owned by my parents. I bought the house and was paying a mortgage on the house. There was to be no separate sale of either property and that is what the lender was told. Enter crooks in suits. The barn was sold and I paid the bill on both metres as normal after the sale of the barn was complete. On that basis when I requested my meter be moved from the barn to the house I was told because I paid for both meters it was my supply and the cable would be moved to me.

MWT

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81957515#Comment_81957515

This still isn't making sense, the house had a meter and the barn had a meter, right?

You bought the house and someone else bought the barn?

If your house had a meter why were you trying to move the one from the barn to the house as well, surely it should just have been transferred to the new owner of the barn?

The other details about no separate sale etc. should all have been covered in the deeds and covenants, do you have copies of those?

What does the Land Registry show as the boundary of your title?

As a general point, it isn't 'your meter', the meter belongs to the supplier (or their asset company) and cannot be moved separately from the supply line it is on, hence the comment about moving the supply line and charging for it…

If the barn was sold then the supply should have stayed with the barn and the new owners would open an account with the provider.

QrizB

This still isn't making sense, the house had a meter and the barn had a meter, right?

It sounds like two meters, one for the house and one for the barn, but both are/were physically located in the barn. So, with the sale of the barn, the OP's meter is/was on someone else's property.

It also sounds possible that when the property was split the OP wasn't covenanted right of access to the meter (I'm only assuming this, OP hasn't explicitly said anything).

The barn was sold and I paid the bill on both metres as normal after the sale of the barn was complete.

I agree with MWT that sale of the barn should also have involved transfer of the energy account for the barn to the barn's new owners.

Are you saying this didn't happen?

On that basis when I requested my meter be moved from the barn to the house I was told because I paid for both meters it was my supply and the cable would be moved to me.

The supply to your house is "your supply" and there is always a charge for moving a supply point.

However, if both meters are served by the same DNO cut-out (the main fused supply, before the meter) then you won't be able to move your meter without also establishing a separate electricity supply.

I'd suggest this should have been done before the barn was sold, at the seller's expense.

Who exactly sold the barn? Was it your parents, or did the barn pass to someone else and then was sold by that third party?

Robin9

Still puzzled - I'm with QrizB in that both meters were in the barn and then a new supply was established for the house.

Why was that not the end of the matter ?

MWT

So if both meters were in the barn was it ever really two separate supplies or was one of them a sub-meter?

There is a reference to paying the bill (singular) for both meters (plural) so not sure if there really was two supplies or just one, especially as there was subsequently a proposal for a complete new supply to be provided which suggests there was only ever one supply in the first place.

… is this 3-phase perhaps?

Either way though there will be a cost involved in this which should have been resolved when the titles were split and the farmhouse first sold.

Mossie56

The same solicitors who acted for me to purchase the house was acting for both parties to sell both properties 20 years later.The house title deeds were drawn up by them. Title plan was never registered. It was agreed at the time of the house sale that in future both parties would sell at the same time. Wasn't written.

Robin9

@Mossie56 Putting aside whatever the Solicitors have or have not done what has changed with the electricity arrangements since you had the supply established in the farmhouse ?

Ectophile

It sounds like the problem is that there is only a single supply to the barn, that is then split to two meters.

DNOs don't do "loop through" supplies any more, where a supply goes to one person's property and then loops through to another's.

So if you can't loop through, then you're trying to steal the barn's supply and redirect it to your house.

Maybe the DNO realised that and now wants you to pay for a whole new supply. That's a lot more expensive than moving a meter. And if they can push the cost of a new transformer onto the person making the request, they will.