Does leaving a job, when you believe you're going to be fired, affect benefit eligibility?

Shadweller

I'm being put on a PIP at work.

I'm aware that if I don't meet the objectives, I'll be fired, unless I'm lucky enough to be offered another role at the company.

But, if there is no other role, it will be better for me in future job interviews etc to be able to honestly say that I resigned, rather than that I was fired.

But does anyone know if the benefits agency will consider this a good reason for leaving a job?

I may have to balance potentially not being able to claim for 3 months vs the ease of securing my next role.

Any info or direct experience would be immensely appreciated.!

TIA!

Grumpy_chap

Are you looking for a new job now?

If you resign you will be considered voluntarily unemployed.

I think the same applies if fired, though in this case the employer might call it redundancy or offer you a final opportunity to resign.

Shadweller

Thank you for your reply.

I'm not looking for new jobs just yet, all my energy needs to go into trying to keep this one, and meeting the extremely challenging targets set by the PIP..

I've previously voluntarily left a job that involved 12 hour shifts + 1 hour commutes at each end, on the grounds of finding it too utterly exhausting to continue. And that was considered a reasonable reason for leaving. (On health grounds. I didn't even have enough time in the day to prepare an evening meal and get enough sleep.)

I think that is what is important, the reason for leaving, and not so much whether it was voluntary or not.

Likewise, personally I'd considering voluntarily leaving a job, when you know you're going to be fired, to be an extremely good reason, but I'm not sure if the Benefits Agency would see it that way.

If I was fired for failing to meet the PIP, I believe that would be a 'no fault' firing. I'm diagnosed Autistic + ADHD and I'm expected to continually cover different sectors and be extremely fast on all of them. When due to my Autism I find the constant change extremely difficult, and would do much better with being on the same section, where I'd perform better due to the routine, familiarity, and repetition.

Trying to convince my employer to give me a fair shot at this is a whole other conversation.

NedS

From a benefits (UC) perspective, there are two separate sanctionable considerations.

The first is Leaving Voluntarily. If you leave your current employment voluntarily, a decision maker will have to consider the circumstances under which you left. You may have good reason for leaving and will thus not receive a sanction.

The second is dismissal for Misconduct. If you are sacked for misconduct then there is no consideration of good reason (there can never be a good reason for misconduct) and a sanction would apply. Being fired for poor performance is not considered misconduct.

So the safest thing from a benefits point of view is to be fired for poor performance rather than leaving voluntarily, but as you say you also need to consider how that may impact your ability to get another job.

Any sanction on UC for leaving voluntarily or misconduct is for 3 months (91 days). If you get another job before the end of your first month on UC, no sanction would apply.

HillStreetBlues

The paradox is showing you were going to be sacked without actually being sacked, what if your belief is misplaced.

Future employers will want to know why you left your old job, they will be taking your answer in conjunction with any references you have.
Leaving without a good reference is not that different from being sacked, as most will come to the view you jumped before you were pushed

Shadweller

"So the safest thing from a benefits point of view is to be fired for poor performance rather than leaving voluntarily, but as you say you also need to consider how that may impact your ability to get another job."

Yeah, it's a tricky one, without knowing if the 'decision maker' would be likely to agree that knowing you're about to get fired, is a good reason to leave. To me, it seems abundantly obvious that it's a very good reason. But sometimes these sanctions can be very punitive.

I may phone them and ask if they can advise. But they'd probably just say that it would be down to the decision maker.

I dunno, but I think that for the sake of £400 pcm for 3 months, I may well as well take my chances on potentially not getting any support for 3 months, and supporting myself. Things could end up costing me a lot more in the longer term, if getting fired makes it very difficult to get another job.

Shadweller

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81952059#Comment_81952059

It's a performance improvement plan. If I don't meet the targets and there is no alternative role I will be fired. That is a certainty. The references for this company just state that you worked for them between certain dates. No more no less. For everyone.

Spoonie_Turtle

I may phone them and ask if they can advise.

They won't be able to. The people you speak to are under-trained frontline workers, the equivalent of call-centre staff, who don't always give the right answers to even simple things that can be advised; and the people who do make the decisions will not advise on a decision about something that hasn't happened yet.

It is of course up to you whether you phone anyway, but just be prepared that if they do seem to give an answer, you won't be able to rely on that answer being correct.

NedS

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81952073#Comment_81952073

Agreed, DWP are not able to offer advice, and no one can offer advice on a hypothetical situation that hasn't happened yet.

A decision maker will take into consideration what steps you have taken to try to improve your performance and what steps, if any, you have taken to secure alternative employment. Were you looking and applying for jobs before leaving your current job, etc. They will also take into consideration the reasons you were unable to perform satisfactorily in your role and whether these reasons contributed to your dismissal/leaving. So ensuring you have taken all reasonable steps to try to improve your performance and/or all reasonable steps to secure alternative employment can only count in your favour.

Shadweller

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81952091#Comment_81952091

I've been researching improving cognitive performance, and going down the route of paying even more attention to good diet, exercise, sleep, morning routines, everything possible basically.

I also have anxiety, which I can get a Drs note to certify, as well as Autism and ADHD, and I am certain that those 3 factors and the constant change are what is contributing towards making the speed targets extremely difficult for me.

Legally there are meant to be accommodations for people with conditions like this, but after very extensive research and consideration, over a very prolonged period, it seems that more often than not, in today's workplaces in the UK, disclosing such disabilities will result in the employee being fired.* Never directly for the disabilities as that's illegal, but they could simply cite the PIP targets failed to be met, and that's me out the door.

I don't see how I could be doing any more, or trying any harder than I am, to make this work.

*Things can be a bit different if you're a highly gifted, highly trained specialist, with understanding employers. Unfortunately I do not fit into that category.

sheramber

Have you advised your employer of your autism and ADHD ?

Have you contacted Occupational Health?