Technical question - UC AP

HillStreetBlues

As long as capital is under £16k at the start of the claim I can't see how it matters what capital is declared on first claim date as it has no bearing on the claim.

Yamor

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81936901#Comment_81936901

It may not currently have a "surrender value", but it does have a "market value" (see Reg. 49(1)), as you could sell the "loan" to someone else. For example, I would certainly pay you £10 for the right to the money in that account! The question is only what the current market value is.

Grumpy_chap

"I can definitely know how much capital I will have at a date in the future"

Sorry to be pedantic, but the nearest you (or anyone) can get to "definitely" knowing about a future event or circumstance would be " I can definitely know how much capital I expect I will have at a date in the future"

You might get knocked down by a bus a day before arranging the transfers between accounts and in a coma.

You might get stuck in a holiday airport departure lounge and delayed for days because of some unforeseen event - storm or whatever - but prevented from processing the transactions.

You might win the lottery.

That is why UC can only work on facts.

Yamor

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81936938#Comment_81936938

Technically, DWP should make a decision to supersede even where it is expected that a change will occur. See Reg. 23(1)(b) of the UC (D&A) Regs and the ADM at paras. A4013(2) and A4016.

In practice, DWP don't do this, and only allow the reporting of changes which have already taken place.

Altior

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81936938#Comment_81936938

I'm talking within the realms of reasonableness here! I don't ordinarily leave the house and I don't play the lottery. Yes there is an incalculable remote chance that I wouldn't be able to operate my online accounts by the deadline, that theoretical risk alone wouldn't affect my plans. There wouldn't be the need for any ad hoc payments anyway, if my calculations are sound, but the option would provide me with some added insurance.

Altior

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81936908#Comment_81936908

I realise this is a bit circular, maybe posters are now becoming used to my autism symptoms. Two of which are repetition and stubbornness 😂

In my case I really need to be under £6K for the application because of the council tax support scenario. I can most definitely be below £6K for an AP that ends after 29th June, but not one that starts before that date if that makes sense. Unless I disregard the most recent ESA payment. It's still pretty borderline and would rely on the council disregarding the most recent ESA payment before the application date as well.

HillStreetBlues

I'm don't know how much CT and UC are in tandem.
When on UC the council are informed of capital & income at the end of the AP. Does the council use the same figures and the same time-frame?
A claim on the 1st March for UC capital matters on the 31st, so under £6k on the 31st would also mean capital on the 1st March was also under £6k.

Does the council use the same dates? or calculated differently?

Altior

It states this on the council's CTR scheme publication

(6) In determining the capital of an applicant—
(a) who has, or
(b) who (jointly with his partner) has,
an award of universal credit, the authority must use the calculation or estimate of the
capital of the applicant, or the applicant and his partner jointly (as the case may be), for
the purpose of determining the award of universal credit.

Altior

I think I might be ok to exclude the £2K locked bond that I won't have at the end of the first AP, as it will not longer be possible capital by then. Need to think about it 😄

born_again

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81937086#Comment_81937086

I can say as far as our claim goes. That we have never dealt with local council on any claim & are more than happy with the amount of CT reduction we get.

So UC must have a way of communicating with councils, but as we know councils are a law unto themselves.