Technical question - UC AP

Altior

Hopefully someone will be able to assist me with yet another question !

I was considering expediting my UC application, so opened an UC account and started populating the 'To Do' list.

The key reason why I was delaying my application was that I have savings that are locked in inaccessible cash bonds. By pure coincidence (I opened them 3 years ago), they total just above the £6K threshold. Literally a few quid, more than a little frustrating as there is no way to break them 😪

Anyhow I just realised that I could now just about manage it using my disregard for the support group back payment. It would be extraordinarily tight until I can access some of the bonds when they mature in June.

That's the background to my query, but I'm trying to work out the exact capital declaration and AP dates. The main issue I have is that I receive my 2 weekly ESA on the exact day that I was planning to submit. In the bank account balance areas it states (paraphrasing) if the balance changes a lot, enter what the balance is today. But I don't want to include the ESA payment received on the prospective application date.

This is very different to standard accounting. So for example, if I applied on the 10th, I anticipated that I would need to enter capital balances as at COB 9th. And then my AP would run from the date of application (10th) to the 9th of the next month. I can't quite work out why it is asking my for balances as of 'today'. Would it be permissible to use the accounting convention (balances as at the day before application)? Ideally I'd need to have that £280 odd to help get through until June, rather than it counting as capital on the application date.

sgthammer

Why not apply before the ESA comes in, rather than delaying?

Altior

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81932873#Comment_81932873

As noted it will be extremely tight if I apply before I can access some of the bonds. I have my affairs organised in such a way that nearly all of my monthly bills (CT mortgage energy et al) are all taken on the same day. So I want to apply just after that day, but just before ESA pay day. Ongoing it's less significant, as during an AP unspent benefit income doesn't become capital until the end of the next full AP. But as I understand it, the concept doesn't apply before the application date, so ESA income becomes capital immediately it's received.

Altior

I may well be overanalysing it but I don't want to give anyone the chance to claim that I did something wrong.

Oddly enough, I know the exact minute that my ESA gets paid. Just after midnight, so theoretically I have a 13 minute window, after midnight to apply, where I wouldn't need to include the ESA money (truthfully) in 'today's; balance. But to be able to do that I need to know which date the DWP uses to verify the capital. ie if I apply on the 9th, do they use closing balances from the 8th, or the 9th (as the To Do would seem to suggest).

Yamor

I don't agree that the principle doesn't apply when you first claim UC, but regardless, I wouldn't worry about it:

When you first claim UC, if you have over £16k then yes, there is a potential issue that they will probably make a decision to refuse your claim before even reaching the end of the first AP. However, as long as you are under £16k when you claim, then the claim will not be refused, and then your entitlement for that first AP will depend on your capital as at the end of the AP.

Just make sure to update your capital on or just before the end of the first AP.

HillStreetBlues

Capital on your first day of the AP doesn’t really matter as long as it's £16k or under, what you need to plan is what it will be on the last day of your AP.

Altior

Oof that's interesting!

So at the end of the first AP, do you declare 'the capital' as a total, or is it granular as per the application?

That's the other hurdle, as I also read that you shouldn't calculate the disregard yourself, and a DM would do it. But if I don't, my capital will be over £6K, and that will likely trigger a review (which I definitely don't need at this point!). However if I only need to declare a single figure and/or it is under £6K, that's fine as it would be correct (inclusive of the disregard).

HillStreetBlues

If you claimed on the 10th and had £7k capital then on the following 9th £5k then no deduction as all that matters in the end of AP

When I first claimed UC I just put a rough total of capital of £2.5k I did have a bit more but knew it didn't matter it if wasn't correct as under £16k.
That figure is still stated in my capital although totally wrong, but as I'm under £6k there is no point in updating it, as it doesn't affect the amount of UC. Even after my Review it remained the same (I had about £5k capital at the time).

If it's disregarded by law then you don't have to tell the DWP, they might want you to or a person might want to but no rule breaking if you don't. If a person decides not to, they do need to make sure that it's correct.

Altior

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81932921#Comment_81932921

Thanks again.

I don't know if my new UC account was part of a beta / A/B testing, but my experience is different to the DWP walkthrough on you tube.

I basically went into the financial 'To do', then it asked me how many current accounts I had, next page is a list of the fields (current account 1, current account 2) and so on, where you put in the bank, balance, acc number. Then the next page was the same, this time for ISAs. So by this point there was no overall capital amount declaration. I stopped there, but assume it will carry on in a similar way for saving accounts, cash et al, and eventually calculate an overall capital total at the end based on the entries.

This way I would need to fudge one of the entries to account for the disregard (to reflect the true capital amount).

HillStreetBlues

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81932927#Comment_81932927

A week ago i helped my friend to put down their capital and also a Personal Injury Payment.
There is a major issue, they ask about monies but monies isn't the same as capital, as often monies include income as well as capital.
The only way I could see around it was to deduct income from the balance of one of the bank accounts, as otherwise they would seem to have more capital then they really have as the DWP doesn't do that calculation.

Altior

My support group back payment was £654.36, I'm pretty confident that is disregarded for 12 months. There is also a RS with £270 that I can't break until maturity, and the cash bonds total £6008. doh. Everything else I can realise and pay off debt.

So as is evident, it's very tight!

In the cash bonds I can get £2K in June, £1K in July, and the rest in 2028. They are all on a savings platform, and pay interest on maturity.