Metre readings

WiserMiser

When you've been able to see the Rate 1 and Rate 2 readings, take photo of each around mid-morning. Then take the readings again in mid-afternoon, ideally after using the washing machine, tumble dryer, electric kettle, electric oven etc.

Send the reading that's incremented to BG saying it's the Day Rate. Send the reading that's unchanged to BG saying it's the Night Rate. That should trigger an accurate bill, hopefully one that's affordable.

Have you signed up your mum for the Priority Services Register? If not, do it right now, it only takes a few minutes.

dburton

do you think her smart meter might be wrong then?

QrizB

Do you think her smart meter might be wrong then?

I think her smart meter is probably working correctly to measure electricity. However there's something wrong with its communications since BG are using estimated readings not actual ones.

Also, the serial number on the meter matches the one on the bill, which is good.

However there's definitely something weird going on.

Looking at the estimated readings on the bill in your first post, the day estimate is 8413.6 and the night estimate is 1378.6. That's a total of 9792.2 units.

However the total active import on the meter is 21429, which is more than twice that estimate. If she's really used that much electricity then she might owe BG more than they think.

It's possible that the meter wasn't brand new and reading zero when it was installed. Did you get a photo of the card or sticker next to the meter with the opening readings on it?

Alternatively, is there anything else that might be using electricity? 21000 units in what looks like ten months is equivalent to running a 3kW kettle continuously for all that time.

dburton

there was another meter fitted previously to this one which was installed a few months prior would that have made a difference?
Also Morrisons have in fact been round a few times recently to read the meter but clearly they hadn’t registered it.
I often call in and the smart meter is always showing £0.02 per hour till I put the kettle on that raises it to £0.36 per hour so it’s not running 3 kw

Heedtheadvice

Th Landys + gyr E470 manual is online but contains a lot of information that is not relevant for you and would likely just confuse.

For completeness at https://www.smartme.co.uk/docs/D000058620%20E470%20Series3%20SMETS2%20User%20Manual%20and%20Functional%20Description%20ISSUE%201_2.pdf

Maybe best just ignore that manual!! So...to help you to read the info

Button A ( green) scrolls through the various useful displays. It is the Total registers that are pertinent.

You have shown above the Total Active register- as Qrizb wrote the total amount of power recorded by the meter since installation (21000kWh approx) since May 2024, roughly 11,000kWh ( Units) per annum. See 5.2.2 below

Pressing Button A if you are on a two rate meter (day and night) should give you readings for the usage (similar to above for total power used) as below.

Where XX indicates the rate type often 01 or 02 for a day/night rate meter.

As well as being actual readings ( not the estimated guesses used by BG) you can also see the cheaper rate power consumption ( and for storage heaters with a set to to use night rate), then that power consumption should normally be much bigger than day usage.

It pays also, to know where you stand, to check if the storage heaters are set to top up storage during the day ( expensive ) or if other heaters are additionally used during the day for extra heat ( also an expensive method)

These checks will give you the correct figures that should be charged since that meter installation, that the meter actually is set for a day and night rate and if you can (subsequently) optimise how the heaters are being used. The figure should correlate closely with those rates shown on the IHD but the latter are only indicative. It is the smart meter readings that should be on your bill.

Making the most use of any cheaper night rate to charge the storage heaters and for the maximum time you can get that cheaper rate is best for economy.,( you might want to change tarrifs/ suppliers if that is then cheaper for longer) but be aware that an elderly person (like me) often needs additional heat during the day to supplement the stored heat.

Interestingly non of your pictures show any light on the hub(the bit above the readings display). Was this just because of the timing when the pictures were taken or are theight off all the time. They should be flashing every five seconds.

Heedtheadvice

Further

And the readings you most recently posted reinforces what others have written that you need to get back to historical actual readings prior to any meter changes, and any subsequent to that other meter change you mention, including final readings and initial readings at those meter changes.

Withoult those you will be like BG and just making guesses and assumptions. Collect together as far as possible evidence of readings be they from bills photographs or actual readings that BG will give you. Ignore estimates for now until correct charging can be determined, and any correction implemented.

Plus do get on to BG and tell them the DD charge is not affordable, negotiate a better one that is more affordable ( in the short term) as they will get very upset with a cancelled Direct Debit which will be worse for your mother depending upon the action they take. If they have made a billing error over a year ago they are not allowed to claim for an underpayment ( no doubt conditions attached)

11,000kWh per annum is a lot of power and costly of standard electricity....but not for heating a property. Is the property all electric? ( apologies if you have mentioned this already)

WiserMiser

Let's step back for a moment and rule out some things which might explain the crazy consumption. They're very unlikely, but not utterly impossible.

• Is the meter wholly within the property, or is it in an external cupboard or meter room? If the latter, it could be supplying a different property.

• Is there a loft? Could someone have been working there and left an electric heater or 500W floodlight switched on?

• Could it be a rogue meter? MeteredOut had an old L+G meter that was happily clocking up usage when the gas had been fully shut off. Switch off all the circuits at the consumer unit for an hour or two and make sure the before and after readings are identical.

• Is it a semi-detached or terraced house? If there's a common loft space, a dodgy neighbour might have tapped in to the supply, e.g. to run a cannabis farm. They might have thought that a 96-year old wouldn't notice or couldn't investigate.

Yes, I know we're really clutching at straws now, but things are desperate and stranger things have happened !

dburton

many thanks for this

It’s a detached property and has 3 storage heaters fully electric with no gas or oil her water is a unvented cylinder that goes on for 3 hours every 2/3 days

I see what your saying 21000 so I really don’t understand

BG has all the photos hopefully this will be sorted

Heedtheadvice

So what is your plan to get this all resolved.

Last post indicates leave it all to BG. Not a good idea. You need the evidence to understand actual usage and make a case.

As has been suggested in several posts ignore estimates gather together documentary evidence (Actual readings, photos, current meter register figures) collate and post them back on here. Plenty of forum members will help you out.

Have you been able yet to read the two day/night meter registers?

Scot_39

I think you have more confidence in BG rhan many - as from the photos posted here BG possibly will not, arguably cannot sort anything - as being BG sadly are unlikely to sort it without a lot more clues from you if relying on this route.

And my mum and worse my sibling was the same both trusted SG to get tge bills correct - everything on the summary pages said it was, tbey had non smart readings in her case, family and meter reader visits - but turned out also ignoring them for 2.5 years.

In order to establish true costs - you need not only the costs - but the energy kWh used per register. And idewlky photo evidence the times those registers operating to resolve day and night rates.

Again a good supplier can actually I believe recover even that from meter - your mums with BG - with a poor record on e7 smart metering and a poor record on customer service in general - but here a really competitive day rate tariiff if not off peak rate.

What they can however do is hopefully sort out getting smart data from your mums meter actually used for billing so as you and she wont have to read it.

[whilst taking photos did you ever see 4 of the 5 leds in a row on the top section (comms hub) flash ? Slow flash every 5 sec is healthy comms. Your getting ihd data so han (in home network link) must be.

shes getting peaksave from presunably 1=2 hrly readings so presume wan also working (the external to home network connection to supplier)]

But as above those ihd photos suggest an install in May 2025 (tgr meter contains upto 13m history - ihd monthly history therefore implies as the data starts in May 2025 - not May 2024) and thats fsirly consistent with the new meter estimate bill for Jan above).

Your mums new rates at 22.1p and 16.3p make any register swap less critical than at say the 2024 rates - but the extra 5.8p will still add up over 1000s kWh a year..

On tbe old bill the rsre were besrly 4x the difference apart - a register swap then a real disaster based on those estimates - just the pre apr 1st 24 cap £1200 out by £400 (**)

What you can see from photos is tge meter edtimates costs ard peaking at £335 in Jan if im interpreting that montjly history correctly. And your mum now paying more than thatt - but £25 wont clear the £540 debit quick enough. But i dont necessarily believe even that was real given that 2 yr old bill either (**).

But based on those monthly costs in ihd photos

Taking a flyer for the months the new meter bill period might be approx guesses

OCT - SAY £200, NOV 250, DEC 330, jan 335

so for mid oct to mid Jan ststement the meter thinks swy £100+250+330+170 = £850 say +/-

Assuming the meter rates are set correctly the SC is and it inc vat at 58.6p

The oct 16 to Jan 16 bill total ignoring peaksave credits was £850.80+93.93+51.27+vat = £1045.8. £200 above thst. The meter // daily r1,r2 e7 registers wont know anything about that saving its internal to BG billing system afaik - a computed rebate - based on smart 1/2 hourly data.

Tge meted photo suggests 21429 over approx 10m from the ihd montjly - aver 2143 kWh say. Lets call it a round 2000 as dont know exact dates.

All At 22.1p that would cost ave £481

all at 16.3p rate thstcwould cost ave £360

Your ihd i.e. meter estimated monthly peaks at a lower £335 if thats corect.

Your meter isnt recording tgat much - so begs tgdvquestion - as above - did your mums meter actually start at 0. Or hax it in fact been in longef than 10/11 months.

So again you need to find meter swap label / card ideally or bill(s) either side of swapover if contain real measurements.

Anothef sanity check - from summef lows to Jan highs - maybe c£250 diifference

£250 at c16.30/kWh if nsh are billed corectly at meter = an extra 1460 kWh per month = extra 47kWh per night - assuminb e7 7 hrs - an ave 6.8kW nsh charging power - 2 large or 1 large and 2 medium sized nsh. So thats completely believable.

For a large 3 bed or semi - not a lot of energy if want it warm for an aversge elderly person

But would need tge actual kWh figures for those months, and ideally the actual register splits. Now even EOons poor cf others onine account portal i can see a history of my smart meter resdings - monthly on bill dates - and every cap change.

Again the bg online account or app if have a smart phone / tablet may well contain a full smart resdings history even if bg not using for billing.

One day and nights worth of 1/2 hrly kWh and cost will let you know nshvand likely hw imersion charged correctkply at meter.

you need to stop thinking just in £s - they are the result - you need to be able to think in kWh and rates she is charged. For a given tariff its the kWh your mum can control by changing heater type or settings (and the balance of use and rates critical when picking a new multirate tariff for / with her)

Total cost = (off peak kWh x off peak rate + peak kWh used x peak rate + sc x days)+vat

£ = (r2 diff ? x0.163 + r1 diff ? X 0.221)x1.05.

but thats my smart meter and my suppliers configurstion of it's order, on others r1 might be off peak, r2 peak and thats why suppliers can get it wrong when move or swap meters. So most have a method to switch built in to reverse order.

The rates as above do look swapped on bills - you might well need evidence of which rates / registers active in day or/and night to convince BG to correct. Or I fear to give to Energy Ombudsman to force them to and corrdct all bills..