Ocean Parking - Manchester Metrolink - Parked after operation hours

traceynob

Not trying to hijack this post, just wanted to say that a colleague of mine has just had a court claim from Ocean Parking for leaving car overnight at Whitefield Met which we are going to defend on basis of not relevant land etc. We will set up thread after outcome (whatever the verdict) for guidance to others but regrdless of whether the land is relevant land or not, I was under the impression that land that is not private land but public (as owned by TfGM which is a public body) means that parking charge notices are invalid (according to MoneySavingExpert advice). For example, a private parking company couldn't put a PCN on a car on a public highway even if they put signs up everywhere, it has to be private land?

Coupon-mad

No that's not correct.

If their client is TFGM then the land is under statutory control. But that doesn't make a PCN 'void'. Just means it's non-POFA.

Which solicitors are Ocean using?

traceynob

Moorfield Legal. No letter before action though, the Moneyclaim came out of the blue last week. We alao received another letter today from Trace threatening court action for the same PCN so hoping you cant be taken to court twice for the same offence!!!

Gr1pr

The defendant needs to come on here and start a new thread about their case, with a properly redacted picture of the claim form

Ignore Trace

cooldude255220

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81907462#Comment_81907462

Apologies for bumping this, but I think it's important to correct the record and to thank you for pointing this out, @James_Poisson, because it actually answers the question in a satisfying way.

Where the byelaws speak of Vehicles, with a capital V, they are referring to the Vehicles as defined in byelaw 1.

Where the byelaws speak of vehicles, all lowercase, they are referring to vehicles generally.

Taking your example, and applying that logic, it actually makes a lot more sense:

NO person shall cause or permit to be brought onto, or permit to remain upon any Vehicle or any Station: -
a) any bicycle or other wheeled vehicle (save for wheelchairs, pushchairs and prams) 

Byelaw 11 d) however makes it even more explicit, referring to Vehicles and vehicles one after the other:

NO Person shall … d) cross any part of the line comprised in the System other than in a safe and orderly manner paying due care and attention to any signs and to the position and motion of Vehicles and any other vehicles…

Applying this to byelaw 14:

WITHOUT prejudice to the other provisions of these Byelaws, no Person shall park or drive or cause to be parked or driven any vehicle on any part of the System or otherwise in such a position or manner as is likely to cause or does cause obstruction to any Vehicle or to the System or to the Persons using or intending to use the System.

The restriction applies to vehicles, not Vehicles, and therefore it applies to vehicles generally, and so it is relevant land.

Coupon-mad

Is it?

Isn't it owned/provided by TfGM, who are a statutory authority?

cooldude255220

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82019965#Comment_82019965

Do you mean "traffic authority"?

I hadn't considered that point.

But it's a good question.

TfGM is an executive arm of the Greater Manchester Combined Authority

The list of traffic authorities are:

(a) the Secretary of State;

(b) the Welsh Ministers;

(c) Transport for London;

(d) the Common Council of the City of London;

(e) the council of a county, county borough, London borough or district;

(f) a parish or community council;

(g) the Council of the Isles of Scilly.

So is an executive arm of a combined authority (which is made up of councils, but not itself a council) a council within the meaning of POFA?

I'm not sure.

Gr1pr

The METROLINK system is a mix of council roads, tram stops, railway stations and Network Rail lines , crossing multiple council authority areas, its not one or the other, but a diverse mix, so there are probably various landowners, bylaws or leased council or possibly some private land , but mainly not relevant land, or wasn't relevant land back then

So i would suggest that the contravention location is relevant, plus I don't believe that POFA2012 applied before boxing day last year, so pcn incident date is also critical

cooldude255220

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82020084#Comment_82020084

Even post boxing day, POFA surely does not apply. Either

1. because the land is owned or operated by a traffic authority (if that is indeed correct); or
2. because
   1. it's land on which the parking of vehicles is subject to statutory control; and
   2. the byelaws are not

"byelaws made under section 219 of the Transport Act 2000(1) by the Strategic Rail Authority, confirmed under Schedule 20 of the Transport Act 2000 and preserved by section 46(4) of the Railways Act 2005",

but instead were made

pursuant to the powers conferred upon it by the Greater Manchester (Light Rapid Transit System) Act 1988 and the Greater Manchester (Light Rapid Transit System) (No2) Act 1988

and so the boxing day changes do not apply.

Gr1pr

I cannot say, but I would have thought that some of the main stations like Piccadilly Station, Victoria Station, Bury Interchange, the Airport Station, Sale, Stretford, etc are mixed use Network Rail stations, serving trains as well as Metrolink, but Ashton Interchange, Ashton Moss , Oldham, Rochdale etc would be council authority land because they aren't part of the Rail network