Unfair refusal of refund

Okell

Ignoring their 30 day returns policy for the moment, do their T&Cs make any reference to a consumer's statutory right under the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 to cancel a distance contract within 14 days of delivery?

[Edit: Ah. I see they have a returns address in Germany Is the seller a German company?]

born_again

Return address: 

(always contact Customer Service first, as described in point 1, to register the return — otherwise the return cannot be accepted). Orber Str. 10, 60386 Frankfurt am Main, Germany

Okell

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81900887#Comment_81900887

Whoops! Cross-posted with you as I was editing

MyRealNameToo

So they are firm based in the UAE but returns are to Germany, they say they follow English laws but California data protection, a very international setup but fairly likely with the high pressure sales techniques and social media advertising most is probably not what it appears.

So have you actually returned the goods to them? Not convinced their returns address is either them nor a logistics company but just some random address they've used.

Presumably you paid for the goods by card? Have you spoken to your card issuer

molerat

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81900887#Comment_81900887

Which looks like a third party fulfilment / returns centre so nothing to do with the actual supplier.

Okell

"… but fairly likely with the high pressure sales techniques and social media advertising most is probably not what it appears…"

Is that a tactful way of saying everything is exactly as it seems?

ie too good to be true?

At least it isn't a returns address in China…

eskbanker

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81900898#Comment_81900898

The only reference to English laws that I can see is within an arbitration section, rather than being clearly stated for the contract itself, but unusually there doesn't seem to be a definitive statement of the overall governing law - it's very USA-oriented though so I'd be surprised if they really were happy to be governed by the old mother country!

Alderbank

Emsense T&Cs include the usual terms in what they call their (12) STANDARD RETURN POLICY, including

Product State: Items must be returned unopened, unused, undamaged, and in their original packaging, unless they are defective.
Shipping Costs: You are responsible for return shipping costs unless the item is defective. Please note that original shipping costs are non-refundable.

However their T&Cs also include

(11) SATISFACTION GUARANTEE
Emsense offers a Satisfaction Guarantee on certain purchases from your first-time subscription order within thirty (30) days from the date that you received your order for a full refund according to the following terms. The Satisfaction Guarantee is only valid on products purchased directly from our Website. Purchases that do not qualify for Emsense’s Satisfaction Guarantee are subject to our Standard Return Policy.

It looks to me that you are trying to claim via the Satisfaction Guarantee. Is that correct?

If so, it matters very much exactly who you bought from. Did you buy directly from Emsense (they seem to be in Dubai) or did you buy from someone on social media such as YLOD Ltd, one of the companies around the world they refer to in their T&Cs?

If you are claiming under your UK contractual rights in the Consumer Rights Act because the goods are faulty, what is the actual fault? In legal terms, how do they not conform to contract? Change of heart would not count

As advised by @Okell above, you might be able to cancel the contract under the UK's CCR regulations, but that depends on whether they have explained to you all your rights to cancel in a durable medium (usually in the email confirming your order or on printed material included with the order). What did they tell you about your rights?

wthit56

@MyRealNameToo I haven't sent the goods; I contacted them to set it up at the start of the conversation I spoke of via email, and they refused the return. I haven't spoken to the card provider.

@Alderbank I couldn't find where such a Satisfaction Guarantee is actually stated. But I'm trying to return it based on the "try it for 30 days" thing, which doesn't call itself the "Satisfaction Guarantee" but maybe they call it that internally.

The ad linked to that first site I linked to. I bought it from that site, which is Emsense I think.

I'm not claiming under the consumer rights act, but under Emsense's own plain-as-day statements. Would breaking those not be false advertising at the very least? I would include their own returns policy in their statements, which states the "change of heart" thing, which I was very surprised to find. But that's not the thing I'm actually chasing.

I'm chasing "try it for 30 days." To me that means they're telling me I have the right to try it. And return it. Before 30 days. I don't remember anything actually stating "here are your rights."

They did send me an email including this: ➡️ Notes on Returns and Refunds. ctrk.klclick1.com/l/01KET2R7S76XBPR62CZ8WW15NG_4 Which takes me to emsence.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/sections/13303106967567-Returns-and-Refunds?utm_source=email&utm_medium=EMS_AP&utm_campaign=usfl_EN&_kx=5L6hU9TggqZSSu0o8PBQ1-s4aoAA8-w3KKLtwOqTVmc.Rkqcem

In the "What is your refund policy?" section it states: "We offer refunds for damaged, lost, or unsatisfactory items, as well as for returned items." The "unsatisfactory" part is as fluffy as "change of heart" or (apparently) "try it." But to me this speaks to the idea you can try it, find it unsatisfactory but not damaged, and get a refund. I'm not sure what they are saying the difference is between a refund and a return is, on their end.

The "What is your return policy?" section reinforced the "unopened" idea. But the returns policy doesn't seem to.

What do you mean about a "contract" and cancelling it?

MyRealNameToo

If you read the terms themselves rather than their returns policy it states it has a standard return, which is listed per the returns policy, and the satisfaction guarantee on certain goods which is different and isnt included in the returns policy.

Whilst it implies you can try the goods and doesnt state that they have to be returned unopened/unused as the standard return policy does it doesnt explicitly state it either.

These are likely to all be relatively moot points though and suspect actually getting any money back from them even if they accepted the return is going to be very difficult and recovery action from a company allegedly in the UAE won't be easy either. Hence returning it then doing a chargeback when he funds arent received is the likely outcome, the fact they say to return it to Germany rather than China may help you with that as most send off to a country where tracking stops so they contest the chargeback saying they never received the goods pointing to the tracking as evidence