Unfair refusal of refund

julie777

My son bought 2 foot massagers which claimed to help neuropathy but they didn't help at all. The advert said if it doesn't help you can get a refund within 30 days but then they refused saying the item must be unused. Totally contrary to their advert. What can he do? They have been arguing by email and I think the 30 days has now passed

born_again

Can we guess that this was on Social Media site?

Link to site?

Where are they based?

Exodi

This should also be in the consumer rights board (requested to be moved).

Interested in how they suggest you can know if it helps or not without using it - I suspect like @born_again this is likely a cowboy social media purchase or similar.

MyRealNameToo

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6655879/unfair-refusal-of-refund

Do you have the web address/ url from where they bought them?

Anything above 14 days will be based on company policy rather than statutory rights. Have you actually read the returns policy?

Neuropathy literally means a disorder of the nerves or nervous system, as such it has many causes and its highly unlikely to be a single universal solution given the vast range of causes.

julie777

My son is joining the forum but waiting for approval.

Okell

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81890953#Comment_81890953

Tell him it would be helpful if he would say where he saw the advert and the name of the company he bought from.

This is because we need to see (1) where the seller is located and whether or not they are a UK company and (2) exactly what their contractual T&Cs say about returns and refunds*

If he doesn't tell us that it's almost impossible for anybody here to help you

*If the seller is based outside the UK/EU you probably have no practicably enforceable legal rights, and even if they are in the UK/EU, after 14 days there is no statutory legal right to return anything for a refund

Ergates

There's no right for a change of mind refund after 14 days. But if they don't work as advertised then that would be "not fit for purpose" return (i.e. faulty item) - which doesn't have a limit.

Obviously then the issue becomes demonstrating that they don't work and/or exactly what they were advertised as.

Alderbank

There's no right for a change of mind refund after 14 days if the seller has provided your son with all of his statutory rights to cancel in durable form, such as email or printed copy.

Many sellers on sites like Facebook Marketplace don't do this.

wthit56

The forum is refusing to let me add a link or even have text that is a link. 🫠 So I guess I can't tell you where the site is?

I'll try to cheat and link you to a document with it all explained elsewhere. docs.google.com/document/d/1um5ijUY0KAcmVMtqlkpZvuLCnBK-1yVVc2eQJvYLsnU/edit?usp=sharing

julie777

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81891150#Comment_81891150

Hey, I am the aforementioned son. For context, I’m 38, I’m online all the time, and I’m not dumb. I did take it all with a pinch of salt, but with the risk-free trial and money back guarantee if it didn’t work… I thought it was worth trying anyway.

I saw an ad on social media (I don’t have a screenshot of it).

It linked to here. [EMSense - _Triple Therapy_ Foot Massager.html] The evidence files of the referenced webpages is zipped up here: Google Drive.

It all sounded like the same stuff my dad was saying about his feet, which suggested he could be in the same situation.

It said “Why People With Neuropathy Are Now Ditching Painkillers for This Safe, At-Home Device” “Your nerve cells are suffocating as you read this” as if that is what neuropathy is and therefore they can make that blanket statement and know that’s the situation for anyone reading who has that condition.

It then says the product is “A device that restores circulation instead of masking symptoms.” As in, it is a treatment for poor circulation, at the very least.

I then clicked “check availability” to go here. [EMSense - _Triple Therapy_ Foot Massager - trymysense.html]

Of course, I expected the scarcity to be faked. I just wanted my dad to try the product, and reutrn it and get the money back if it didn’t help.

Speaking of which, the clearly states: “30-day money back. Wer’re so confident EmSense will help you, we’re giving you 30 full days to try it out.” So, it’s effectively a risk free trial, and if it did help, I’d consider the money well-spent.

There are testimonials which may or may not be fake. But again, it was risk free, and worth a try if it would help my dad.

I didn’t check the policies themselves around returns, but I thought “how could they possibly refuse the return before 30 days are up?” Of course, now they are trying to swing the lead.

Even their returns policy [Return Policy _ Emsense.html] says: “We understand that sometimes things don't go as planned. Whether you’ve had a change of heart, received a damaged item, or encountered another issue, our return process is designed to be simple and stress-free.” I’ve had a change of heart. That’s all that is needed to make a return. We’ve encountered the issue of “It doesn’t help.” I expect them to give me a simple a stress-free return process—as stated in their own returns policy.

It has these instructions:

“Please provide a brief description of the product and the reason for your return.” —I have done so.

“securely package the item(s)” —I have done so. Not sure why I’d need to package the items if the items never the packaging.

Then it says: “Items must be returned unopened, unused, undamaged, and in their original packaging, unless they are defective” and “If the item is not as described (e.g., opened, used, or not defective as claimed), the refund may be declined.” Which contradicts “try for 30 days,” which requires you to open the box. And contradicts “change of heart” being all the reason you need to make a return.

Their disclaimer page [disclaimer - EMSense.html] says: “EMSense is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any medical condition.” Which contradicts the original message which said the product “restores circulation.” Whether it cures it or not, that’s a treatment for poor circulation.

Over email, they said it has to be unopened, I responded with evidence such as the above, they ignored it and said: “we’re unable to process a refund under the Satisfaction Guarantee.” There’s no such thing as a satisfaction guarantee on the site; I can’t find anything talking about a satisfaction guarantee.

They said: “The 30-day return policy allows returns for unused and unopened items. Since the products have already been used, they unfortunately do not qualify under this return condition.” Which of course goes against the idea of “try it for 30 days.”

They responded with “To clarify, the ‘try it for 30 days’ statement refers to the timeframe during which unopened and unused items can be returned, as outlined in our return policy.” Ignoring the phrase “try it,” which is the actual crux of the matter.

eskbanker

On the face of it they're an American company, which is going to restrict rights and options, but the small print actually says:

For the purpose of these Terms of Sale, Emsense (or “we,” “our,” “us”) shall mean either:

The company selling the products/services:
FONSLIFE TRADING - FZCO , a company registered in the UAE under license number 39314, with its registered address at Dubai Silicon Oasis, DDP, Building A1, Dubai, UAE.

https://legal.tryemsense.com/terms/