Probate questions

GrubbyGirl_2

You do need to talk to Social Services. The care home will have notified them of your mums death but there still may be financial costs to be met. You say your mum's estate is worth around £300k means that she would have been classed as a self funder with regards to her care, but SS would have "managed" the payments to the home. Unless she had significant savings which were funding her care (plus her pensions) you may find that SS have put a charge against her home to cover costs. You really do need to understand how her care was being funded as I would suggest her pensions alone were not sufficient to cover the weekly costs of her care.

noclaf

@GrubbyGirl_2 - Re Social Services and charges for mums care, I pre-empted this by raising with SS before she went into care (during search for a placement). It was agreed by LA at that point that the house would not be taken into consideration (disregarded) and this was confirmed by email. All her pensions and AA were put towards care costs with a small balance left over (calculated by LA taking into consideration her savings) for her personal allowance. At no point have I been informed of any change in position by the LA also noting I am mums next of kin and managed all her finances including care home payments by way of a Deputyship.

So I would be surprised if there was a charge applied without agreement upfront or consulting with me first, given I proactively contacted SS and discussed in detail about this exact aspect before we found mums care placement.

poseidon1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81886375#Comment_81886375

Also as co owner on the legal title I cannot see how a charge could be imposed without you being eventually being directly notified of the fact by the Land Registry.

GrubbyGirl_2

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81886375#Comment_81886375

Unfortunately I have had a very bad experience with Social Services and wouldn't trust them an inch, but I'm glad you had a better experience

noclaf

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81886866#Comment_81886866

Sorry to hear. The point you flagged is very valid, I've always been very anxious about the scenario you mentioned (even after clarifying with SS and LA!).

I think there are also many other variables so outcome could differ on case by case basis....medical history of the person going into care, immediate family considerations, the LA position, how helpful the SS is etc.

noclaf

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81886736#Comment_81886736

Just for my understanding please, currently I am not listed on the deeds (will be one of the steps I need to undertake to update) but do have alert notifications setup with the Registry to monitor (and receive a summary update bi-annually)

Where you mention legal title do you refer to this purely in a legal context rather than the deeds?

poseidon1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81887133#Comment_81887133

Yes when you stated you had inherited your father's share of the property, I had assumed ( it seems wrongly), that you had progressed with legal title being registered in your own name, thereby replacing your father.

The registration process at that time would have marked the completion of the administration of your father's estate, so in that respect the administration of your father's estate was left incomplete.

Therefore as you say that becomes an additional task together with probate for your mother, to complete the unification of legal title to the house to your sole name .

noclaf

Thanks poisedon1, all makes sense. I held off making the legal title updates for practical reasons...hopefully not inadvertently making more work and hassle for myself now...we shall soon find out.

Land_Registry

Just a couple of pointers to perhaps address some of the posts made re the legal ownership/deeds/registered information re the house/property.

As your parents were joint owners the legal ownership passed to your Mother when your Father died. Whether they were tenants in common or joint tenants does not alter that fact as the TIC/wills/trust relate to their beneficial, not legal, ownerships. And that is why probate was not needed for the property when your Father died.

You cannot transfer a share in the legal ownership. It is always transferred as a whole.

If social services were involved and the council imposed a 'charge' on the title for the care received you would not have been notified as you were not a registered legal owner. Unsure if one was but worth checking the register online for a small fee to confirm how the property is registered

Search for land and property information - GOV.UK

Following your Mother's death probate is required and her executor, you, can transfer the legal ownership to the beneficiary, you, using forms AP1, AS1 and ID1/ID3. Our online assisted guidance explains what's required. Note that when you apply you should also enclose a certified/official copy of your late Father's death certificate

HMLR Guide: Start - External  · HM Land Registry

noclaf

Thanks @Land_Registry

I downloaded the title register, as expected both my parents are listed and in a couple of areas I see the reference 'Title Absolute'.

There are 7 items listed under charges. Some date back to the 1930's regarding conveyance and transfer of land and interestingly the last charge by date appears to be pre-2010 by a bank....not sure it that was related to the mortgage at the time as does appear to the the bank that provided the mortgage. There are no charges related to the LA so assume none were ever placed by the LA.