Probate questions

noclaf

My mother passed recently and having held the funeral, trying to get my head around next steps regarding the estate and probate. Do bear with me as I have various questions but any pointers/guidance that can be shared would be appreciated.

I have issued the 'Tell us Once' notification to stop her pensions.
I am the sole beneficiary of her will(no siblings), which will likely consist of a small amount of cash and half of a property.No DC pensions, she only had State and Civil service. My mother and father (passed 5+ years back) were divorced and owned the property as tenants in common. My father's half came to me when he passed away and no IHT was due on his estate.However I chose not to update the house deeds as was told to wait and do it all together once my mother passed (by a solicitor).

I expect the total value of her estate will be less than £300k. I have submitted the 'Tell us Once'.

I am not listed as an executor of the will (it was drafted circa 20+ years back and my mother put her siblings as executors). I assume this means that legally only the listed executors of the will can complete the probate.

Questions:

• How would I know if probate is required? Is there a threshold normally e.g estate value?
• Assume that as I am not listed as an executor then legally can't do anything however would like to make the executors life as easy as possible e.g: some of my mothers life insurance policies are very old (setup in 80's) and the insurance companies have been taken over or consolidated into other companies so that may take some legwork to identify the correct current name
• typically what is the easiest way to check if a life insurance policy was active e.g : write a letter or call them?
• my mother was in a care home and the LA took payment every month. Whilst I assume the Tell Us Once will notify them should I contact them directly to ensure they are aware?
• how would I value the property, can I use an estate agent or is it required to be done by a RICS surveyor?
• Any other points/aspects I need to consider?

Thanks and sorry for the long post.

poseidon1

I will leave others to advise on the 'nuts and bolts' aspect of the work you should do to assist the named executors of your mother's will in administering the estate pre- probate.

However you should note it is open to your executors to delegate to you application for probate (should this be necssary) via form PA11. Since they have nothing to gain other than unpaid hassle and inconvenience this might appeal to them.

I will focus on your statement that you inherited your father's half share of property on his death, but it seems both parents were apparently divorced at the time.

Are you certain that's what the will stated, ie you inherited his share on an unrestricted basis, or did it actually state you inherited subject to your mother's right to occupy the entire property for her lifetime?

If there was a restriction related to your mother's right of occupation, this was a trust. The affect of such would be the entire value of the property ( not just 50%) is reported in her estate for probate purposes.

You have estimated your mother's estate at £300k, but if that was based on only 50% value of the house, you may be wrong so please confirm the exact wording of your father's willed gift of his share to you.

The outcome of this question and the numbers involved may determine if the estate qualifies for favourable excepted estate status as set out below -

https://www.gov.uk/valuing-estate-of-someone-who-died/check-type-of-estate

Keep_pedalling

Contact her bank to notify them of her death, this will stop any payments going in or out.

I would speak to the executors to see if they will renounce and let you handle the estate.

it is important to establish if your father’s will gave your mother the right to live in the property. If it didn’t and you don’t live there you may have a CGT liability on your share.

noclaf

Taken from my dad's will verbatim:
I hereby direct that my share of the equitable interest in my former matrimonial home of XXXX be vested in my son XXXX
(There is no mention of mum in his will)

I am living in the property and have been continuously for 20+ years, was carer for mum for before moving her to a care home as her health deteriorated.

@Keep_pedalling If it's relevant here, this was your response on one of my old threads a few years back:
Your father’s estate has been wound up and you are now the owner of his share of the property so this is something you can do yourself. Assuming you will also be inheriting your mother’s share then there is no real urgency to do this until she dies so you only have to do this once.

Regarding executors being allowed to relinquish responsibilities to me, if that's possible would be my preference. The executors (mums siblings) have their own busy lives, health ailments etc and I would rather not saddle them with this but ultimately I will ask what is their preference as it's their choice to make.

poseidon1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81885039#Comment_81885039

OK this greatly simplifies matters in terms of probate and administration.

Firstly, given what you say about the executor's busy lives a PA11 delegation of their duties to you would certainly suit you all and highly recommended in these circumstances.

As it happens it appears with a gross value around £300k and no intervening trust, your mother's estate should qualify for excepted estate treatment which means no requirement to provide full details of estate assets and liabilties on IHT 400.

As regards valuing the house, I would have thought the average of 2 or 3 estate agents should suffice, rather than incurring a full blown RICs red book valuation. There appears to be no IHT to worry about.

With regard to life policies, yes look up each company to make sure they still exsist (or taken over) and write to them all to obtain death claim values. However beware, if life policy proceeds pushes your mother's estate above £325k, this might mean having to claim her residence nil rate band to avoid IHT, which unavoidably mean having to lodge an IIHT 400, even though no tax due.

Subject to all of the above, once you have all the relevant numbers and assuming insurance payouts are not excessive, it should be sufficient for you to claim your mother's £325K NRB only , in order to utilise the expedited online system to obtain probate as an excepted estate.

Following the HMRC explanatory link I sent you should hopefully guide you through the process, but as you see there is plenty of help here if you hit any hurdles.

Once probate obtained, final piece of the puzzle will be the land registry transfer of your mother's property share to you but with regard to that process, perhaps cross that bridge when you get to it?

noclaf

Thanks so much Poseidon1, really helpful info.

I have a hunch that the life policies might of been cashed out/closed by my mother but need to do some digging and then check with each insurer to confirm if that is the case.

Savvy_Sue

WRT the Care Home / Local Authority - my first reading had me going "surely the Care Home know his mother has died", but then I realised it was the LA taking payment. Definitely tell the LA: yes, you'd expect the Care Home to do so, and to tell them no further payment was necessary, BUT in my experience it takes a long while for the various accounts depts to speak coherently to each other.

Plus there may be either an overpayment due back to Mum's estate, OR possibly a final payment due - depends on various things.

As Keep_pedalling says, notifying her bank will ensure no further payments go in or out. That tends to concentrate minds if money is owed anywhere.

noclaf

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81885199#Comment_81885199

I had the same thought process as you regarding the LA....not sure how efficient and 'linked up' it all is, add in delays due to possible backlogs and lack of comms between dept's then it's feasible the LA might not know yet so I will contact them directly as think they may end up taking an overpayment for last month as mum passed prior to end of month.

I also recall how when my dad passed, he was over-paid on pensions and funnily enough they were very quick to request return of the overpayment......

Savvy_Sue

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81885272#Comment_81885272

Yes, although WRT the overpayment, you might find it's less than you're expecting because presumably you didn't give the home any notice of her death (!) … plus until you cleared her room the home would be unable to move anyone else in, so payment might be due.

Anyway, do come back with any other questions, at this stage there is no rush because you're not anticipating an IHT bill (unless something someone else has said indicates there might be, in which case you have 6 months from death to pay if you don't want to have interest added on); you don't intend to sell the house any time soon so you don't need probate for that; you might find banks will release funds to you without probate.

However, it would be an excellent idea to get the house transferred into your name now, not with any undue haste, but simply to avoid YOUR executor(s) from the hassle of establishing what's happened and when …

noclaf

@Savvy_Sue - Thanks.

Good point regarding the overpayment and will take that into consideration. My mum was taken away from the home within hours and I cleared her room the next morning (all arranged by myself) as I felt somewhat rushed TBH and not fully happy about certain aspects of the comms (lack of tact would be best description) but decided to hold fire (given how raw the situation was and not responding in a emotional state) and I may provide constructive feedback at some point however the actual carers were great and aside from a few ups and downs generally good level of care.

The executors are close-knit family members and were fully in the loop with mums overall health deterioration right up untill she passed so should be fairly straightforward (hopefully!).

Savvy_Sue

Know what you mean about the home: I regularly say to people "you have to remember that the home has done this dozens of times, they know exactly what they are doing and how to do it, but (generally) we've never had to do this before, and we don't even know what we don't know." I am not looking forward to having to clear a room in double quick time when still reeling from a death - even if everyone knew it was coming!