Mobility Scooter - Not Mobile - Repair Store Gone No Contact

Alderbank

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81878758#Comment_81878758

That £40 won't be just fuel though - a journey through central London in that 'old car' will swallow at least £30 in ULEZ and congestion charges alone.

OP, just saying which boroughs, for instance 'from Camden to Lewisham and back' should be enough without revealing too many secrets.

JustJinny

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81878758#Comment_81878758

ahhh. I see. If the Scooter is running without fault, it can actually go approx 35 miles, on one full charge, at a max speed of about 3.5mph.

However, the distance to the shop is about 50/52 miles away - with congestron charges, and so on - so if going alone with a carer for support, I'd navigate my way across London, using various Trains, Buses, Tube, etc. It takes ages as not every station is accessible, but it's do-able.

JustJinny

UPDATE: I just looked in my Emails, and seen a response sent just before they closed for the day.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We have tried to contact you by telephone and we have discussed that we put the scooter on a rolling road test and our engineer found no faults with the scooter, it was explained to you that with an intermittent fault we cant access it until it happens/shows and unfortunately your scooter isnt. 

As far as we are aware, the scooter is working fine, the batteries are reading ok and there are no loose connections and we are unable to do anymore with the scooter. 

Would you like to arrange collection?

Kind regards, "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They never once mentioned the rolling road test. The Engineer said, when it was handed over, after my friend reported the same faults, was that the only way he could test it, is if he could ride it around the area when he wasn't working on other jobs, and suggested he hang on to it, to do that. I don't know if that is the same thing as a rolling road test, but I'm getting the feeling they didn't even try turning it on. :(

So does anyone know what my Rights are? I've tried answering all the questions, where people are concerned about the details that are confusing, but does anyone have any actual advice on what I should do, now that I've had contact. … Because I do know that this Scooter is faulty and these things are very expensive to buy and fix… hence why I took it back there, to be fixed under Warranty.

Thanks in advance.

eskbanker

In terms of what your rights are, it's often commented on this board that there are two different strands:

Firstly, the Consumer Rights Act 2015 offers statutory protection, and requires that goods are of satisfactory quality, which includes durability and freedom from defects, for example:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/9 (s9: Goods to be of satisfactory quality)

If a fault is found, then there are various remedies:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/part/1/chapter/2/crossheading/what-remedies-are-there-if-statutory-rights-under-a-goods-contract-are-not-met (part 2: What remedies are there if statutory rights under a goods contract are not met?)

These remedies include repair, replacement or refund, but the sticking point is that from six months after purchase, the onus is on the consumer not just to be able to demonstrate a fault but to prove that it was present (even if latent) at the time of sale, e.g. a manufacturing flaw. In your case, the fact that the trader is insisting that the fault can't readily be reproduced in a workshop environment means that you'd have to find an independent repair technician who can (a) identify a fault and (b) confirm that it was present when sold (as opposed to being wear and tear, for example), which would then give you leverage to pursue the retailer, via the courts if necessary.

The other strand is manufacturer (or retailer) warranty, which isn't statutory and so can effectively include whatever terms and conditions the manufacturer or retailer chooses to offer, but will often be a more pragmatic way of resolving faults, although again intermittency will be an issue if the fault isn't readily demonstrated. A manufacturer or retailer failing to abide by contractual terms can still be sued for damages, provided breach of contract can be shown.

Another potential angle is a section 75 claim against your card provider if you paid for any of the cost by credit card, although you'd still need to prove breach of contract, which would likely entail getting an independent report as above.

Finally, in terms of the apparent difficulty of demonstrating the fault on demand, it might be worth trying to assemble some video evidence with the help of a friend or relative? I'm no expert in this area but it sounds like at least some of the symptoms you describe could be down to loss of battery power, so it might help to be able to show that you set off with a fully-charged battery and then suffering problems much sooner than it would be expect to discharge - if the battery is faulty, then this may be a simpler fix than a more fundamental problem with the electrics themselves.

JustJinny

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81879438#Comment_81879438

Thank you so much. A very much appreciate your post. I will follow your post information and see what can be done. :)

I actually spoke to my normal fix it Scooter guy, and he immediately said he knows what the problem is likely to be, given what I described - which is exactly what I described to the Engineer … The battery has likely stopped drawing power from the voltage of the battery, and is using current from the motor, and therefore, given the light error sequence, and that it was screaming - it has likely damaged the motor, which is likely not repairable for a viable amount, as both the 4 batteries, and the motor would need replacing. He said that the problem would not be intermittent, and would be obvious immediately, but would surface more and more prominently, as soon as the motor starts warming up, which would be after 3 to 4 minutes, with more aggressive signs around 10 minutes in.

He said if they are insisting there is no fault, to inform them of my plans, and to bring it straight to him and he will do a report for me with pictures and videos of the tests he will conduct.

He also said he doubts very much that the company have a Rolling Road tester for a mobility scooter, as they are extremely expensive, large in size, and cumbersome, and this is a local high street, small business.

I rang my insurance company and had a chat with them too. … When I took out the insurance policy I did it via the phone and was told that everything was covered. I explained that I have Asperger's and I have to trust them, but I wanted the lot covered. I paid a three year cover. … It turns out that this cover, does NOT cover everything, I read it when I got the paperwork, but I guess it just did not register what was missing. I was not told that I would also have needed to take out an extended warranty insurance, to cover repairs and faults! …. This means that there is no insurance cover for the cost of repairs, or anything to do with repairs, only accidents….

Meaning that if then, the manufacturer can't help, and this scooter is not repairable, due to the issues my guy thinks, I have literally thrown away a couple of thousand pounds, with no claim allowed, via the Insurance…… To say that I am so upset about it, is putting it mildly. … I just don't have that money to replace it, if I have no positive outcomes, via the methods you mentioned….

But for now, it very much seems, like my Scooter days, and going out days, are pretty much over for a long while, especially, should it turn out to be what my usual Scooter guy said is wrong with it.

Thank you so much for your information. It is very much appreciated. :)

molerat

What method was used for paying for the scooter ?

eskbanker

Meaning that if then, the manufacturer can't help, and this scooter is not repairable, due to the issues my guy thinks, I have literally thrown away a couple of thousand pounds, with no claim allowed, via the Insurance

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned upthread, but did you buy it directly from the manufacturer or a reseller?

As above, your consumer rights are with the retailer, and, separately, it'll presumably be the manufacturer that offers a warranty, so you may have two different companies to pursue.

Based on what you've said so far, the company you've been dealing with won't (so far) help rather than can't help, but if your independent engineer is able to confirm that the issue relates to a manufacturing flaw, etc, then you'll be in a good position with the retailer under CRA, and even if that isn't the case, once the fault has been diagnosed then the manufacturer warranty should apply. If the issue isn't repairable then you'd be entitled to a replacement or a refund under CRA, or you'd need to check what the warranty offers in such situations.

Note that insurance was never likely to be the answer if it's anything like motor insurance, that covers damage, theft, etc, rather than guaranteeing mechanical performance.

Okell

@JustJinny - you shouldn't have to rely on "insurance" or an extended warranty anyway.

If your "usual" scooter repair guy can produce a report that establishes that the scooter did not "conform" to contract when purchased*, then you will have a remedy under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

As the seller has already had one attempt either to repair the problem or to replace the scooter and the fault persists, you can claim a refund under the above legislation. But note the seller can reduce your refund to reflect the use you've had of the scooter.

How did you pay for the scooter?

*ie was not of satisfactory quality, or was not fit for a specific purpose, covering design, components used, manufacturing faults etc

sheramber

What warranty was given with it?

You bought in January 25 and it failed in October 25.

eskbanker

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81881470#Comment_81881470

From OP:

The year's warranty on the brand new Scooter, has now expired too, while in their hands.