Octopus Go Intelligent Tariff - recent changes

matt_drummer

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81893563#Comment_81893563

I have no doubt that the car will do it, with no trouble.

The `problem' for me is that a car is a very expensive source of home battery storage.

Cars uses the best batteries whereas home battery storage use the not so good batteries as they are not needed in the home but not good enough for a car. They are cheaper.

As you say, the battery cycles are no different to a long daily commute.

Which is fine, but when you come to sell the car at eight years old (for example) with 40,000 miles on the clock that is not really true as you have not added the 300,000 miles of `commuting' that the car has done in those eight years.

The car will be practically worthless, does it really make financial sense to use a car in this way?

QrizB

I am that low mileage driver who has been waiting for precisely this technology prior to purchasing my first EV.

I'm not at all convinced that it's worth a low-mileage driver spending £50k on a brand-new EV if it's going to spend most of its time plugged in and pretending to be a static battery.

Better to buy a 5-year-old EV for £10k.

If the 5-year-old EV isn't suitable for V2G, use £5k of your savings to buy a separate home storage battery. You'll still be £35k ahead on the deal.

Edit to add: apologies everyone, this is not really related to Intelligent Go or to the impending changes. This is more relevant to Intelligent Flux or the (future) Power Pack bundle.

Second edit: I see Matt has made a similar point, above.

Reed_Richards

@QrizB, If you are a low mileage driver, is it worth spending £50k on a car?

pensionpawn

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81893574#Comment_81893574

I disagree that an EV is a very expensive home battery solution. Quotes I have received for an installed PW3 are approximately £8k, for 13.5 kWhrs. For example, Kia EV5 is around 11 times the storage for 5/6 times the price (entry / top spec)*. Of course, the EV is much more expensive and it wouldn't make sense unless you're in the market for a new car, which I am. This would be my final car as I'm retiring whenever my company starts to make my job undesirable, so I want a new car with an extensive warranty, to see out my driving days rather than a second hand EV. Thus I'm not concerned about the resale value, as it will always be supporting my home's power requirements and be available for the occasional journeys. I also agree that bi-directional charging isn't as attractive for those who's EV will be parked at work most of the week.

I'm not advocating that this is a solution for the masses, at the moment, however it will appeal to those in a situation similar to mine, and as a consequence the energy companies will need to accommodate a situation where there is no distinction between the home battery and the car battery. That is the point I'm making, not that everyone should go bi directional, at least straight away.

• * correction. Never post in a hurry because you have to go out! For example, the Kia EV5 is around 6 times the storage of a PW3 and 5/6 times the price. However you do get a decent car thrown in and enough storage to not only ensure that you no longer have to pay more than cheap rate for electric, but also the ability to daily time shift safely up to ~ 48 kWhrs of energy if you so desired.

born_again

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81894682#Comment_81894682

Needs do not always = cheap car. Look at someone that is a wheelchair, disabled or a 3/4 child family users. Smaller & cheaper cars may not or are not suitable for their needs. 🤷‍♀️

How many low mileage users driver expensive ICE?

QrizB

I disagree that an EV is a very expensive home battery solution. Quotes I have received for an installed PW3 are approximately £8k, for 13.5 kWhrs.

The Tesla Powerwall 3 is an expensive battery. For example you could instead have 48kWh of battery plus an 8kW inverter for about £7.1k from this example installer. Adding a second battery to make it roughly the same capacity as the Kia EV5 would increase the price to £11.4k.

Expressing it in terms of price-per-kWh:

• Tesla PW3: 13.5kWh for £8k, £592 per kWh
• Kia EV5: 81.4kWh for £39k, £479 per kWh
• 48kWh battery bundle for £7.1k, £148 per kWh
• 96kWh battery bundle for £11.4k, £119 per kWh

So yes the Powerwall is expensive for the capacity it provides.

Reed_Richards

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81894725#Comment_81894725

Well exactly! What you should be comparing with the price of a standalone battery is not the price of the car but the price premium you pay for the EV over the ICE equivalent. If the price premium is £10k then you should be comparing that £10k with the cost of a standalone battery.

JKenH

Are these EVs going to be able to export to the grid? Do they have MCS approval and do they satisfy DNO requirements? Will electricity suppliers pay for export from these EVs? Or are perhaps owners flouting the regulations and exporting without getting the necessary approvals, as I suspect some may do with DIY domestic battery installations? Some may think, if you are already being paid for export from your solar array, “who will know” if you export a bit more from a battery?

MattMattMattUK

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81895315#Comment_81895315

The EV does not export, the charger does. Bidirectional chargers all have to be approved, certified and correctly installed. For export on solar/battery installations they will already be on the consumer side of the setup, the power will be controlled by the export unit and will be no different to energy from a battery or solar panel (or any other approved generation source).

JKenH

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81893563#Comment_81893563

You said: “The government have mandated that from January 2027 all EV chargers, private (new sales no doubt) and public (new installations?) must, by law, be bi directional.”

Are you sure about that?