Council Housing Advise Needed Please

tsears

Hi All,

Long story short, my sister, with her 4 boys (6, 10, 10 & 17), currently lives in London in a council-subsidised rental property. She moved there from Northampton 2 years ago via the home swapper. Unfortunately, she was told a few lies regarding the costs there, apparently from the person she swapped with, so the costs to live there have spiralled out of control. She is trying her best to move back to Northampton or Bedfordshire via home swapper and other avenues, but has had no luck for the past 6 months. She has been to both councils, but they are unable to help as she now has debt to the housing association, but has started a repayment plan. She is really struggling now with her mental health, and I'm really trying to get her out of London.

I have just moved into a property with my partner, so my 1-bed flat in Bedford (which I own on a mortgage) is unoccupied, so I have suggested it as a last resort for my sister and her 4 kids to move into my 1-bed flat, which I know is far from ideal, but I am out of ideas as to help. At least by being out of London, she will hopefully be able to get her finances in order and get her health under control.

Obviously, this will hopefully be short-term, but how willing will the council be to help, as I know it will be overcrowding. I have seen some suggestions online that she is giving up council-subsidised property, and she would not get much help from the council because of this. But I have no idea what other options she has. She has all her GP letters showing her mental health state and I think she just needs to get out of London as she is currently stuck there.

Any advise in this situation would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Tom

Myci85

It's lovely that you're trying to help her, but I do wonder if moving 5 people into a 1 bed flat is just going to be swapping one problem for another, and not do much to improve her mental health? Out of the frying pan and into the fire sort of thing. I have a 17 year old, and they take up quite a lot of space. Add to that two 10 year olds and a 6 year old, in a flat that I'm guessing would barely fit enough beds in let alone space for them to live, and no telling how long it would be for. I think personally I'd struggle to cope for just a week away in that scenario.

elsien

if you’re not aware of contrived tenancies, you also need to look that up.

If she’s expecting her rent to be paid through benefits, then it needs to be a proper tenancy agreement with the market rent and you have to be prepared to evict her. If the DWP are not convinced of that they may decline to pay.

tsears

Thanks for the comments so far, I have no idea what benefits she currently gets, so I will need to ask her. I was not planning on charging her rent for the first couple of months to help her out, then going forward, it would just be the amount of the mortgage I'd charge, but will definitely do some research into contrived tenancies as I'm just worried about all the knock on effects renting out to her may include.

I have mentioned that it may just be swapping one problem for another, but she is just desperate to get out of London and is willing to put up with whatever conditions, I’m worried about both staying or moving to my flat!

elsien

you would also mean to make sure that you meet all of your obligations as a landlord - all the pre-tenancy information and fire safety certificates/energy ratings and everything else. That is non-negotiable for a tenant which is what she will be as well as being a family member.

I have to agree though that number of people in that smaller place could become very unbearable very quickly. She might be willing to put up with the conditions, her children possibly less so.

If she is struggling financially, would she be willing to post an SOA on the debt free Wannabe bit of the forum here to see if people can help her to cut her expenditure?

silvercar

The only path this would work is as a very short term measure. You then giving her notice to quit and she takes it to the council and pleads homelessness. Whether that would work as a plan I don’t know, but the council could provide temporary accommodation that she would need to take before being permanently rehoused. In my area that includes container homes. So your looking at 2 moves in cramped conditions with 4 kids on someone already struggling with their mental health.

KxMx

I think it's a terrible idea, if she does move in I really hope they are considerate re noise… I had to put up living below a lady & 2 teenage daughters for over a year (all one bed flats with a maximum occupancy of 2)

I didn't complain because I knew they were trying to get somewhere bigger (which happened eventually) but quite frankly it was horrible living so close to overcrowding.

The flats simply aren't built for so many people so some normal living noises get amplified, then you'll get excessive noise just from having too many people tripping up over each other. Frayed tempers from not enough space, presumably the 6yo will want to have active play at home etc...

Not just residents, visiting friends too, it was fun (not) when eldest daughters boyfriend came over with young child & big dog!

_Penny_Dreadful

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6652451/council-housing-advise-needed-please

I think you’d fall foul of the overcrowding laws.

Everyone over 10 counts as 1 person and those aged 1-9 count as 0.5 persons. Your sister has a household of 4.5 people. If you use the living room as a bedroom that gives you 2 bedrooms. The highest number of persons you could legally rent to in terms of overcrowding is 3.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/check_if_your_home_is_overcrowded_by_law

Ratkin007

It's a really bad idea. deliberate overcrowing/ Intentional homelessness springs to mind.

Giving up secure accommodation to move 5 people into a 1 bed property would not be looked upon very well and would be seen as deliberate overcrowding. You've mentioned Housing Association and council subsidised accommodation, so what is it she is living in? A Council property or Housing Association, if Council they may be in a better position to assist.

I believe her best option would be to deal with any housing arrears and put herself in the best position to carry out a mutual exchange or be moved, easier said than done, I know. Failing that, it would be a case of looking for private rented accommodation.

With regards your property, are you able to let her live in your property rent free for a very long time. Whilst you may trust that your sister will pay you rent even if just to cover your mortgage there is a big risk. I know of someone who let their sister live in their property and only charged them the amount to cover the mortgage. They claimed housing benefit, however they did not pass the housing benefit over to their sister, that was for a period in excess of 2 years.

gwynlas

You appear to be neglecting the interests of your nephews and the potential harm uprooting them again might cause them.

Presumably it was not their decision to move to London initially but by now they would be settled in schools and have friendship groups. You not only are suggesting they go through this again but are placed in inadequate housing.

if your sister needs mental health support she should access this where she is.

It might be that they need the help of social services as a family.

sheramber

what is your intention with your flat?

Could you sell it and use some of the money to provide your sister with the deposit for a private rental?