Rescue dog impasse, is there an obvious compromise?

middlewife

Some background first of all;
My OH is 65, took voluntary redundancy in October and gets SP next November. I'm 63, work 6 hours a week for NHS and get small pension.

OHs parents took in a rescue border collie who'd been abandoned with a litter of sickly pups. He was living away but visited frequently and adored her, I met her a few times 35 odd years ago.
Fast forward to 2 years ago. OH hated his job and was miserable working from home and we discussed getting a rescue, I reluctantly agreed to foster after we'd walked a dog for 6 weeks to "get me used" to managing a dog. Only problem was he was absolutely fixated on having another young border collie that he could take to agility, notwithstanding that the previous dog showed no interest or aptitude.
We spent a few months researching collie behaviour and training, and charities that re-home collies.
We were assessed as suitable, mainly on the strength that my husband had previous experience. This then gave access to a closed group where you could view available dogs and ask questions. We ruled out quite a few before going to visit a 2 yr old dog in South Wales. 
We were naive and alarm bells should have rung when we asked to walk him and instead of heading into town, we were taken to a quiet field to walk him. We collected him a week later, and after the first week decompressing realised he had never been socialised and was extremely reactive on the lead and constantly pulling. 
I had, wrongly, assumed that OH would take breaks from work to help, but it soon transpired that from 7 am to 7pm I was responsible for the poor dog. I did my best, took him to a collie trainer who took one look at us and told me to hand him back. My OH was too busy to come to training sessions so I hired a walking field 3 times a week. I took unpaid leave to be with the dog and did a lot of training to build a bond and work with all the things he was afraid of.
Unfortunately, he bolted during one of these walks, dragging me off my feet,  cracking ribs and breaking my wrist. The same day, a behaviourist came out to assess him, she was more optimistic and he did walk nicely with her well trained dog, but the training plan she sent us was overwhelming, especially as my arm was now in a splint and what little confidence I had evaporated. I told OH that the dog had to be returned, which the charity had agreed to as all dogs have a 3 month settling in period.happily he settled with the next lady, his 7th place. The night we came back is the only time I've seen OH cry, he was inconsolable, not that I was hurt but that the dog had gone.

Problem now is that OH yet again wants to get not just a rescue, but another border collie. We are going to relocate in 2027 once our youngest graduates and moves away. In the meantime, I crashed a bike and have had my shoulder rebuilt, with 6 months more physio to go, I have also torn my hip and will have a hip replacement in March as it's beyond repair. After that I have a severely arthritic knee that will need replacing in 2 to 3 years. I just can't handle a young dog. When I ask why it has to be a collie, he just says it's because he wants to go to agility and have fun!!! 
I have said the compromise is that I agree we can have a rescue, not a puppy or specific breed and that Battersea should match us. He is adamant he only wants a collie. I'm coming close to saying it's me or the dog!!! Am I being unreasonable? Is there an obvious solution? I suggested fostering or dog walking, but he wants a dog that is his.......help!

Emmia

middlewife said:

Some background first of all;
My OH is 65, took voluntary redundancy in October and gets SP next November. I'm 63, work 6 hours a week for NHS and get small pension.

OHs parents took in a rescue border collie who'd been abandoned with a litter of sickly pups. He was living away but visited frequently and adored her, I met her a few times 35 odd years ago.
Fast forward to 2 years ago. OH hated his job and was miserable working from home and we discussed getting a rescue, I reluctantly agreed to foster after we'd walked a dog for 6 weeks to "get me used" to managing a dog. Only problem was he was absolutely fixated on having another young border collie that he could take to agility, notwithstanding that the previous dog showed no interest or aptitude.
We spent a few months researching collie behaviour and training, and charities that re-home collies.
We were assessed as suitable, mainly on the strength that my husband had previous experience. This then gave access to a closed group where you could view available dogs and ask questions. We ruled out quite a few before going to visit a 2 yr old dog in South Wales. 
We were naive and alarm bells should have rung when we asked to walk him and instead of heading into town, we were taken to a quiet field to walk him. We collected him a week later, and after the first week decompressing realised he had never been socialised and was extremely reactive on the lead and constantly pulling. 
I had, wrongly, assumed that OH would take breaks from work to help, but it soon transpired that from 7 am to 7pm I was responsible for the poor dog. I did my best, took him to a collie trainer who took one look at us and told me to hand him back. My OH was too busy to come to training sessions so I hired a walking field 3 times a week. I took unpaid leave to be with the dog and did a lot of training to build a bond and work with all the things he was afraid of.
Unfortunately, he bolted during one of these walks, dragging me off my feet,  cracking ribs and breaking my wrist. The same day, a behaviourist came out to assess him, she was more optimistic and he did walk nicely with her well trained dog, but the training plan she sent us was overwhelming, especially as my arm was now in a splint and what little confidence I had evaporated. I told OH that the dog had to be returned, which the charity had agreed to as all dogs have a 3 month settling in period.happily he settled with the next lady, his 7th place. The night we came back is the only time I've seen OH cry, he was inconsolable, not that I was hurt but that the dog had gone.

Problem now is that OH yet again wants to get not just a rescue, but another border collie. We are going to relocate in 2027 once our youngest graduates and moves away. In the meantime, I crashed a bike and have had my shoulder rebuilt, with 6 months more physio to go, I have also torn my hip and will have a hip replacement in March as it's beyond repair. After that I have a severely arthritic knee that will need replacing in 2 to 3 years. I just can't handle a young dog. When I ask why it has to be a collie, he just says it's because he wants to go to agility and have fun!!! 
I have said the compromise is that I agree we can have a rescue, not a puppy or specific breed and that Battersea should match us. He is adamant he only wants a collie. I'm coming close to saying it's me or the dog!!! Am I being unreasonable? Is there an obvious solution? I suggested fostering or dog walking, but he wants a dog that is his.......help!

Personally I'd put my foot down - if your OH wants a dog he needs to be 100% responsible for all walks, feeding, costs, training etc.

Based on past performance he's not shown he can be responsible for a dog. And you've been seriously injured as a result of this.

If the dog arrives and he doesn't take responsibility, it needs to return straight to the rescue, no ifs, buts, or promises to do it tomorrow.

Myci85

I can really sympathise with your situation, but I definitely think you both need to be on the same page to take on another rescue dog, it's not fair on the dog or you otherwise. 

We rescued a young collie last year, I grew up with a collie, OH had always loved them, we had an older rescue dog before who was a Welsh collie x and live very active lives so thought that was our dog. Well this collie was amazing in the house with us, a really gorgeous girl, but likewise it quickly became apparent she had lived a very sheltered life before and was reactive to everything out of the house - cars, people, bikes, kids on scooters. Every single walk was so stressful, constant lunging on the lead to just get down our street to the fields, trying to scan ahead and avoid any triggers etc, that I just started dreading them. We tried so hard with her, tried to find isolated spots to walk her to try and stop her trigger stacking, hired dog fields so she could properly run off lead, worked with a behaviourist, and her previous fosterer who was amazing, but after a month we came to the heartbreaking decision that our environment wasn't right for her and we were so stressed with it all and constantly falling out, disagreeing over how best to handle her. I cried my heart out handing her back but knew it was the right decision. 

We now have a 7 year old cocker spaniel, he is the easiest, most chilled dog ever, we can take him everywhere which is what we wanted, and a good job because we took him on knowing he has severe separation anxiety and currently can't be left home alone at all. 

Rescuing a dog can be amazing, but it has to be a realistic match, and your OH has to be prepared to either compromise significantly on what dog you take in, or wait until he retires so he can be the main carer. 

middlewife

Myci85 said:

but likewise it quickly became apparent she had lived a very sheltered life before and was reactive to everything out of the house - cars, people, bikes, kids on scooters. Every single walk was so stressful, constant lunging on the lead to just get down our street to the fields, trying to scan ahead and avoid any triggers etc, that I just started dreading them. We tried so hard with her, tried to find isolated spots to walk her to try and stop her trigger stacking, hired dog fields so she could properly run off lead, worked with a behaviourist,


Rescuing a dog can be amazing, but it has to be a realistic match, and your OH has to be prepared to either compromise significantly on what dog you take in, or wait until he retires so he can be the main carer. 

Your description brings back lots of memories! I am a little bit anxious that if he is the main carer and anything happens to him, I will have issues with the dog, so it has to be a dog we are both happy with 

Myci85

If you can get him to consider other breeds, I'd highly recommend Spaniel Aid as a rescue. Out of all the places we looked at, they give the most comprehensive information about the dogs as they are all assessed in foster homes, so you have a very good idea what you're taking on. And spaniels can be fab at agility etc too!

elsien

He is looking at the wrong breed for your family circumstances and it is not fair on the dog. 

You don’t have to have a sheep dog to do agility. I did agility with my English bullterrier. We were never going to  win prizes but we had fun and that’s the whole point of it. 

This is long but very accurate. perhaps your husband needs to consider it. 

So what is your Border Collie NOT good at...............?

The following article is by Sue Kinchin, a member of the Association of Pet Dog Trainers and gives an interesting alternative insight into what makes Collies so special.

If you have a Border Collie you have a very special dog; a dog that is intelligent, sensitive, eager to please and very quick to learn. Sounds like the perfect pet? Yes, with our help they can make wonderful pets, but we need to remember that when we take one of these very special and complex dogs into our homes we have a responsibility to try to understand all the factors that make a Border Collie what it is. The more we can understand our Border Collies the less likely it is that we, and our collie, will encounter serious problems.

Border Collies have been bred for generations in a very specific and restricted environment for a very specific task and, as a breed, are relative new-comers to life as pets. Some cope very well and others struggle. It is our duty to try to understand these beautiful, clever creatures and to help them to cope.

We can easily find books that tell us what Border Collies have been bred for. We will be warned about their sensitivity to movement and tendency to chase things and about the fact that they need to have their brains occupied, but what we are not generally asked to think about are those characteristics that are not necessary in a working sheepdog, but which make life easier for a pet dog.

Anyone who has owned Border Collies will be aware that they are generally cautious dogs. Without intensive and sensitive socialisation as puppies they are often wary of people, intolerant of unfamiliar dogs and anxious about anything new or changing. Even with intensive socialisation some retain these characteristics. Border Collies are prone to being affected by a single bad experience and have poor "bounce back" when something goes wrong for them. 

They are very sensitive to reprimands, but equally crave guidance and instruction. Because they are very sensitive to movement, any fast movement that they cannot control can be very disturbing to them. No wonder so many Border Collies hate traffic. Remember though, it is this sensitivity and intelligence that we find so appealing.

So why are they like this? Why can life upset them so easily? To understand our collies fully we need not only to consider what they have been bred for,.but also what they have not been bred for.

When a shepherd is selecting dogs to breed from he is selecting for a specific task and characteristics that do not interfere with this task are likely to be ignored. 

Over the generations your Collie has NOT been bred to:

• Cope with noise..... Collies need to have very acute hearing to hear and interpret a shepherd's signals at a great distance, but sheep farms are generally quiet places and their sensitive hearing does not cause them problems. Urban and domestic life bombards our dogs with noise and this can cause them extreme stress. Be aware of this and if necessary protect your dog from excessive noise. Speak quietly to your Collie, he doesn't need you to shout at him.

• Cope with change..... sheep farms tend to be relatively unchanging places, there are sheep, the shepherd and his family, the barn where the dog sleeps and an odd tractor or car. Sheep dogs don’t generally need to cope with change. Every time our urban collie leaves home the street outside will probably have changed (new vehicles, new people, rubbish skips etc.). Just going out for a walk, even if the dog looks forward to his walk, can generate stress and we need to be aware of this and help him cope. 

• Cope with the presence of strangers/visitors or groups of people…. Sheep farms tend to be isolated places. It is not necessary to be at ease with people to be a good working sheep dog. In a pet home our dogs are surrounded by many strange people in the street and visitors to the home. If you get your Collie as a puppy make sure he is sensitively socialised to people at an early age. If he is older respect the fact that he may find meeting strange people stressful.

• Cope with the presence of strange dogs......... apart from the familiar dogs with similar characteristics that live on the farm with them, working sheepdogs are unlikely to need to mix with other dogs. As pet owners we expect them to meet a lot of strange dogs, many with appalling “dog manners”, and often with our dog on a lead so that it does not have the option of running away. Even if your collie does not react aggressively in these situations he could well be very stressed.

Many sheepdogs will never leave their farms so traditionally they haven't really needed to get on with other dogs or unfamiliar people. Sociability and resilience are not characteristics that have historically been important in the development of the Border Collie.

Although your dog may not be directly from working stock he will still have many of the characteristics inherited from generations of working sheep dogs and equally he may not have inherited those characteristics that would make life in a pet home easier for him.

Shepherds are the experts with Border Collies and we can learn a lot from them. Yes, we've all heard of harsh and callous shepherds, but many value their dogs very highly, not just as working dogs, but also as members of their family. Watch a sheepdog working, it is referring back to the shepherd for guidance all the time. His impulses to chase and control movement are under very tight control. The shepherd is guiding the dog and the dog is exhibiting self-control. Ideally this is how we want our collie to be with us. If he is checking in with us to find out what do next not only is he under control and less likely to get himself into trouble, but he is also getting reassurance from us. He doesn't have to worry; we will tell him what to do in any situation. Encourage your dog to look to you for guidance; it shouldn't be too hard, it's in his genesl

Watch the shepherd to, he has to keep very calm and guide his dog at all times. You just don't see excitable shepherds, an excitable shepherd would mean an excited dog and scattered sheep! Be a calm owner. Think about this if you are considering Agility or Flyball with your Collie, a good working sheep dog is fast and has lightning reflexes, but is not in a state of over-excitement. Teach your dog calmly what you want him to do. If he understands and is enjoying what he is doing he will do his best; after all he has been bred from generations of dogs selected for their willingness to work as a team with their handler. There is no need for your dog to be roused to a hysterical state for it to perform well, and it is bad for its mental and physical health to be in such a state. If your dog shows signs of stress or gets over-excited ask yourself is this is really the best activity for him.

A final thought... when a working sheepdog is not working alongside the shepherd he is shut away in a quiet, non-stimulating place to rest and recover and to keep him out of mischief! Importantly, adrenalin levels that have probably been quite high while he is working now have a chance to return to normal. Your sensitive, alert pet Collie is being bombarded with information from his environment all the time; make sure he has plenty of opportunity to rest in a secure, non-stimulating place where he can relax.

Think Border Collies, think working sheepdogs.....maximise their strengths, 

understand and respect their weaknesses.

elsien

And the proof it doesn’t have to be a collie.

Myci85

@elsien lovely dog, is there some collie in the mix? Very collie like colouring, including the white tipped tail!

elsien

No, I don’t think so Most likely to be an English bull terrier staffie cross. The egg head shape was much more pronounced in real life than in  photos. And the temperament was pure bullterrier. 

I remember going to training classes and been told when I was getting disheartened with his idiocy that if I wanted a dog to hang on to my  every word I had the wrong breed. 😀

LightFlare

Be honest with him 

Explain how you felt with the last dog

Maybe suggest he volunteers at a dog shelter for a couple of mornings a week for 3 months or so

elsien

it feels a bit like it is much about recapturing elements of when he was younger. 

His life is different now and if he couldn’t make time to train or walk the rescue that you had where does he think for agility is going to come in? He’s not being realistic, although getting him to see that may be a different matter.