Eon renewal - 60% increase and no justification!

NorthEastLight

PThomas_2 said:

12 month usage:
Day: 5,403 kWh
Night: 2,916 kWh
Export: 2,580 kWh

Can't speak for the export side of things and I only have 1 hybrid to manage, but for high day rate users (your day use is similar to mine) EDF's GoElectric is typically better value than any of the others, even with a relatively high night rate. Downside is it's a steep exit fee of £75.

But it will depend how much of your night time use shifts to daytime rates given EDF's shorter 5 hour charging window.

Depending on charger/cars the EDF Smart charge bolt on may be available which could give you back some of that time and £60 credit over 12 months. I've had it just over a month and it's consistently offered 2 extra half hour slots of charging 5-6am. YMMV.

As others have noted all the EV ToU tariffs appear to be eroding in value (higher daytime rates vs standard tariffs and/or reduced night hours), and that's combined with a general upward trend in electricity prices since your last fix.

PThomas_2

lohr500 said:

Is there any of that 5,403kWh peak day time load you could shift to off-peak?
It seems quite high given you are using oil for your heating and have solar.

How are you heating your hot water? 
With a reasonably efficient oil boiler and the current oil price, it will most likely be cheaper to heat your water with the boiler.

Are you charging both PHEV during the off-peak rate? If not, is it worth looking at getting higher output charging points installed so you can charge both of them during the off-peak period?

Definitely look at battery storage. It's been a game changer for us. My 7 hour off-peak Economy 7 rate with UW is 4.98p per kW/h. 98%+ of our annual 4500kWh peak rate usage is now supported by our Tesla PW3 battery which charges up every night on the same 4.98p rate. 

The UW export rate is pants though, but as we have no solar, it doesn't matter for our scenario.

Unfortunately both our PHEV's only have a 20mile range, so they end up needing recharging during the day. Other high usage is likely to be the tumble dryer when the weather is too cold or wet to dry clothes outside. As we have to put the hose out of the window at the moment, we can't really run it overnight.

Additional solar and battery storage are on the horizon, but not an option today, where I need to make a decision on a new deal. 

PThomas_2

MWT said:

PThomas_2 said:

I cannot see how any energy Company can justify such an increase?
I have asked them to explain and they left a voicemail saying its not a 60% increase, and will try and call me back. From everything I can see online, these tariffs are correct.

Controversial perhaps, but flip this around, how can you possibly justify getting angry about being able to buy energy at 7.5p/kWh when most people on the Standard Variable Tariff are paying twice that amount... ?

... OK... full disclosure, i obtain roughly 99.7% of my annual energy at 7p/kWh, through a combination of an EV tariff and a large home battery, and if anything were to change that 7p to say 15p, I'd be sad for sure, but I'd be happy about the years I've spent paying very little compared to others.

Your energy supplier was probably over ambitions in setting the rate as low as they did and adjusting it up a bit was not unreasonable.

Ultimately you and I have no right to be able to get tariffs at such very low rates, and if they do vary a bit from time to time then so be it.

If that small variation in combination with other small variations results in a larger swing because of our pattern of use then so be it.

I am less concerned about the rise here, but almost 40% rise on day rate is not acceptable. 

PThomas_2

Its also quite difficult to find a comparison of deals from other suppliers with TOU rates.
None of the main comparison sites seem to do anything other then single rate.

matt_drummer

PThomas_2 said:

Unfortunately both our PHEV's only have a 20mile range, so they end up needing recharging during the day. 

Do they need recharging during the day?

Surely that is what the petrol engine is for?

When you have run out of electricity you have a petrol engine!

How much per mile does it cost to run when charging at peak rate?

I don't understand why people buy PHEV's and they either never charge them or charge them almost continuously to ensure they use as little petrol as possible.

Why didn't you just buy fully electric vehicles?

QrizB

PThomas_2 said:

Its also quite difficult to find a comparison of deals from other suppliers with TOU rates.
None of the main comparison sites seem to do anything other then single rate.

MSE has a regularly-updated guide to EV tariffs:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/ev-energy-tariffs/

If you want to compare Economy 7, all the comparison sites will do this but you'll need to tell them that you have an E7 meter.

Scot_39

There is plenty of justification.

Your night ev rate will still be less than half the equivalent e7 rate at EOn in many regions.  Its a steal.
Your new day rate similar to e7.
Welcome to reakity of miliband et al's net zero nirvana - adding to electricity costs on a near continuous basis along sidd other policy costs - like much of the 7.4% (£85 at 3900kWh) on Ofgem PC2 (E7 etc)  cap in last 3m (hidden by media focus on the 85% with dual fuel -  whos equiv inc 2.2% - saved by wholesale gas costs).

As to export - why should EOn - whos parent co a UK generator themselves - pay 16p for something you could be reselling energy stored at 6.5p or 7.5p via home battery systems for profit.

Especially when grid level solar - growing rapidly - already c12.5GW in spring 25 - adding to our imbalanced energy market - and worse still curtailment costs since Feb of last year.

Domestic solar is at risk of being marganilised, far less likely to be needed to match summers current c27GW ave demand levels - there will be peak demand hours - but for many sunny hours a day - there is far less justification for generous flat rate deals.

And with moves to HHS - Id expect further focus on that spot demand vs generation capacity balance.

Ezon are not the first to cut rates - Octopus cut their export rates to sub 10p on was it flux iirc - but do still offer 15p elsewhere.

27 GW is easily met by grid level solar, wind even at c20% median load factor (still about half the new levels used by DESNZ after their c50% cut late last year)  - when weather suits of course -  nuclear etc. Without headroom for tge full 5-6GW of domestic solar to be used for export.

Domestic solar on current trends (with some forecasting treble the current combined 18GWp capacity by 2030) just risks being viewed as many critics have in tge past predicted - as dumping unwanted energy into an increasingly imbalanced generation capacity vs demand model.

Solar being seasonal - a virtually useless source to cover the current c60% higher winter peak demand in uk - and chasing it to do so - thats just creating even more massive overcapacity and imbalance in summer. 

And where that has happened elsewhere - networks saturated - solar export is no longer universally permitted - and those now upgrading / repairing - even subject to lower export / invertor rating caps.

lohr500

PThomas_2 said:

lohr500 said:

Is there any of that 5,403kWh peak day time load you could shift to off-peak?
It seems quite high given you are using oil for your heating and have solar.

How are you heating your hot water? 
With a reasonably efficient oil boiler and the current oil price, it will most likely be cheaper to heat your water with the boiler.

Are you charging both PHEV during the off-peak rate? If not, is it worth looking at getting higher output charging points installed so you can charge both of them during the off-peak period?

Definitely look at battery storage. It's been a game changer for us. My 7 hour off-peak Economy 7 rate with UW is 4.98p per kW/h. 98%+ of our annual 4500kWh peak rate usage is now supported by our Tesla PW3 battery which charges up every night on the same 4.98p rate. 

The UW export rate is pants though, but as we have no solar, it doesn't matter for our scenario.

Unfortunately both our PHEV's only have a 20mile range, so they end up needing recharging during the day. Other high usage is likely to be the tumble dryer when the weather is too cold or wet to dry clothes outside. As we have to put the hose out of the window at the moment, we can't really run it overnight.

Additional solar and battery storage are on the horizon, but not an option today, where I need to make a decision on a new deal. 

As matt_drmmer mentions, you would probably be better off using petrol rather than charging up at the 34p peak rate.

What size batteries do the PHEV's have? And what mpg would you get if running on petrol alone? With this information it is easy enough to calculate the relative costs.

Also, if the drier is suitably located, I'd be getting a price for someone to core drill a duct through the wall so you can vent the drier without having the window open. No only would this allow you to run it off-peak (although some don't recommend this due to the potential fire risk) but it would avoid having an open window in cold weather letting loads of precious heating out!!

Scot_39

matt_drummer said:

PThomas_2 said:

Unfortunately both our PHEV's only have a 20mile range, so they end up needing recharging during the day. 

Do they need recharging during the day?

Surely that is what the petrol engine is for?

When you have run out of electricity you have a petrol engine!

How much per mile does it cost to run when charging at peak rate?

I don't understand why people buy PHEV's and they either never charge them or charge them almost continuously to ensure they use as little petrol as possible.

Why didn't you just buy fully electric vehicles?

Businesses bought phevs because of their tax breaks.  Then high mileage sales staff ran them in fossil ice mode almost permanently.

Carryiing tfe weight of tge batteries around too,  so even less efficient, than normal SUVs..

matelodave

lohr500 said:

Also, if the drier is suitably located, I'd be getting a price for someone to core drill a duct through the wall so you can vent the drier without having the window open. No only would this allow you to run it off-peak (although some don't recommend this due to the potential fire risk) but it would avoid having an open window in cold weather letting loads of precious heating out!!

We've got a condensing dryer, which doesn't need an outside vent. Even better as it sits next to the washing machine it pumps the water directly into the drain as well so we dont have to empty the tank.
It keeps all the heat in the house as well rather than blowing it outside.

In a previous house we did have an outside vent which lined up with the dryer outlet. However, according to the law of sod, when it died we couldn't get another machine that lined up with hole  so we got a condensing one instead, much less effort.

I am astonished at you energy consumption though. We dont have electric cars, dont have solar panels, we are all electric using a heatpump to heat the place 24/7 and still only use around 7000-7500 kwh a year. We are on a fixed tariff at 20.3p/kwh with OFTM until June. I'm sure you could do better if you looked around or optimised your usage and consumption patterns a bit better.