Flight changed and now not direct flight - via another airport

eskbanker

SMarg said:
There is no flight number the same throughout the 9th.  I can see that flight has been running up until 7th February at different times to mine. I have been unable to find any wording that allows me to have a refund when I have been notified more than the statutory 14 days. If I am going to challengeit further I need to find some wording to quote

Either they or you may be mixing up two completely separate provisions in the regulations.

When an airline cancels a flight, article 5 requires them to offer a refund or rebooking under article 8, and also compensation under article 7 - if you're notified of the cancellation more than 14 days in advance then the article 7 compensation doesn't kick in, but however much notice you're given, the article 8 obligations apply.

saajan_12

SMarg said:

eskbanker said:

SMarg said:

The original flight was 13.00 and the new one via Barcelona is 10.10 so the 5 hour time doesn't apply unfortunately.

Ah right, I was just reading their reference to 'changing the date'.

SMarg said:
I have to provide a reason for the refund as it is under 5 hours difference but I consder diverting via Barcelona a significant change.  Need to know if I'm correct on that

I don't believe there's a regulatory definition of significant schedule change, so if their position is five hours then you're likely to have a challenge with that line of argument.  However, if they are no longer operating the flight you booked (as indicated by flight number), then that would be considered a cancellation, which does grant refund rights.

There is no flight number the same throughout the 9th.  I can see that flight has been running up until 7th February at different times to mine. I have been unable to find any wording that allows me to have a refund when I have been notified more than the statutory 14 days. If I am going to challengeit further I need to find some wording to quote

The point is if flight AB111 was running at 13:00 and they've changed that to AB111 running at 10:00 then that's more problematic (though unlikely as there's now a stopover). 

However if flight AB111 at 13:00 has been cancelled and the've moved you to flight AB222 running at 10:00 then you trigger the cancellation rights. 

SMarg said:

eskbanker said:

SMarg said:

I had a flight booked with Vueling -Spanish airline
9th February LGW to Alicante 1300 arriving 1630
8 January (outside of 14 days) the flight changed to:
1010 arriving Barcelona 1320 leaving Barcelona 1535 arriving Alicante 1645

[...]

Vueling has not accepted that I am due a refund quoting UK/EU rules

On their site, they're still selling tickets for the 13:10 direct flight (VY9601), so I'd have insisted on that, but if you've already gone ahead and booked elsewhere then that's perhaps academic.

Exactly which regulations and clauses are they seeking to rely on?  If they cancel your flight (or deny your booking on it) then they're obliged to offer you the (unfettered) choice between a refund or rebooking on an alternative flight under comparable transport conditions, i.e. direct flights where available.

According to the Regulations of the European Council, the airlines are obligated to inform the passengers with at least two weeks in advance. We have complied with this obligation by sending you an e-mail on 08/01/2026 to the e-mail address indicated in your booking.

For the reasons indicted above, we have to inform you that we can not resolve your claim to your satisfaction.

For cancellations, they're not REQUIRED to inform you 14 days ahead as they state, but if they do then their obligation becomes refund only instead of refund + compensation. Refund could be replaced by rerouting whereby its debatable if a stopover but only a few hours longer is comparable or not, but we don't even have to go there because you can choose refund or reroute. 

To double check, have you ever referred to compensation or just refund? I would go back to them quoting the EU / UK whereby since they cancelled AB111 (whatever your flight no was) you want a refund (not compo). 

SMarg

saajan_12 said:

SMarg said:

eskbanker said:

SMarg said:

The original flight was 13.00 and the new one via Barcelona is 10.10 so the 5 hour time doesn't apply unfortunately.

Ah right, I was just reading their reference to 'changing the date'.

SMarg said:
I have to provide a reason for the refund as it is under 5 hours difference but I consder diverting via Barcelona a significant change.  Need to know if I'm correct on that

I don't believe there's a regulatory definition of significant schedule change, so if their position is five hours then you're likely to have a challenge with that line of argument.  However, if they are no longer operating the flight you booked (as indicated by flight number), then that would be considered a cancellation, which does grant refund rights.

There is no flight number the same throughout the 9th.  I can see that flight has been running up until 7th February at different times to mine. I have been unable to find any wording that allows me to have a refund when I have been notified more than the statutory 14 days. If I am going to challengeit further I need to find some wording to quote

The point is if flight AB111 was running at 13:00 and they've changed that to AB111 running at 10:00 then that's more problematic (though unlikely as there's now a stopover). 

However if flight AB111 at 13:00 has been cancelled and the've moved you to flight AB222 running at 10:00 then you trigger the cancellation rights. 

SMarg said:

eskbanker said:

SMarg said:

I had a flight booked with Vueling -Spanish airline
9th February LGW to Alicante 1300 arriving 1630
8 January (outside of 14 days) the flight changed to:
1010 arriving Barcelona 1320 leaving Barcelona 1535 arriving Alicante 1645

[...]

Vueling has not accepted that I am due a refund quoting UK/EU rules

On their site, they're still selling tickets for the 13:10 direct flight (VY9601), so I'd have insisted on that, but if you've already gone ahead and booked elsewhere then that's perhaps academic.

Exactly which regulations and clauses are they seeking to rely on?  If they cancel your flight (or deny your booking on it) then they're obliged to offer you the (unfettered) choice between a refund or rebooking on an alternative flight under comparable transport conditions, i.e. direct flights where available.

According to the Regulations of the European Council, the airlines are obligated to inform the passengers with at least two weeks in advance. We have complied with this obligation by sending you an e-mail on 08/01/2026 to the e-mail address indicated in your booking.

For the reasons indicted above, we have to inform you that we can not resolve your claim to your satisfaction.

For cancellations, they're not REQUIRED to inform you 14 days ahead as they state, but if they do then their obligation becomes refund only instead of refund + compensation. Refund could be replaced by rerouting whereby its debatable if a stopover but only a few hours longer is comparable or not, but we don't even have to go there because you can choose refund or reroute. 

To double check, have you ever referred to compensation or just refund? I would go back to them quoting the EU / UK whereby since they cancelled AB111 (whatever your flight no was) you want a refund (not compo). 

I requested a refund and NOT a credit for the outbound flight as I'd be unable to meet the time of the 10.10 flight they wanted to move me to. I don't live near the airport 
I quoted UK/EU 261 rules and I was advised no refund.
The change was from VY8471 to VY7833 and VY1306

SMarg

eskbanker said:

SMarg said:
There is no flight number the same throughout the 9th.  I can see that flight has been running up until 7th February at different times to mine. I have been unable to find any wording that allows me to have a refund when I have been notified more than the statutory 14 days. If I am going to challengeit further I need to find some wording to quote

Either they or you may be mixing up two completely separate provisions in the regulations.

When an airline cancels a flight, article 5 requires them to offer a refund or rebooking under article 8, and also compensation under article 7 - if you're notified of the cancellation more than 14 days in advance then the article 7 compensation doesn't kick in, but however much notice you're given, the article 8 obligations apply.

I have emailed Vueling customer service stating the part of Article 8 which applies and mentioned that as my Vueling flight VY847 was cancelled and is not available that day , I request a refund as I am unable to take any other flight on that day and flying directly from London Gatwick to Alicante was not an option with them.
Hoping that will do it!

eskbanker

SMarg said:

eskbanker said:

SMarg said:
There is no flight number the same throughout the 9th.  I can see that flight has been running up until 7th February at different times to mine. I have been unable to find any wording that allows me to have a refund when I have been notified more than the statutory 14 days. If I am going to challengeit further I need to find some wording to quote

Either they or you may be mixing up two completely separate provisions in the regulations.

When an airline cancels a flight, article 5 requires them to offer a refund or rebooking under article 8, and also compensation under article 7 - if you're notified of the cancellation more than 14 days in advance then the article 7 compensation doesn't kick in, but however much notice you're given, the article 8 obligations apply.

I have emailed Vueling customer service stating the part of Article 8 which applies and mentioned that as my Vueling flight VY847 was cancelled and is not available that day , I request a refund as I am unable to take any other flight on that day and flying directly from London Gatwick to Alicante was not an option with them.
Hoping that will do it!

It should do, but having rights and actually enforcing them are often two different things!  Note that you're not required to justify your position - under article 8 they have to offer you a free and unfettered choice between refund or rebooking, so there's no requirement for the passenger to explain why a refund is selected rather than rebooking.

SMarg

Just thought I'd update. No response from Vueling so I got in touch with the CAA which took a while, to clarify I was entitled to a refund.

Their response: As your new flight has a different flight number, it is likely that your original flight has been cancelled. When an airline cancels a flight, it must offer affected passengers the option of a full refund or a replacement flight

I've again emailed Vueling quoting CAA.

To be quite honest it's not about the money as it's a small amount but they could do the same to someone who has paid a lot for thier flight, it's more the principle. I won't spend too much time on this but I'll see how it goes

eskbanker

As the CAA concedes, they don't really have enforcement powers here:

[CAA] PACT will advise on whether we think you have a valid complaint, and if so will take it up with the business concerned, but we do not have the legal powers to impose a solution on an airline.

https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers-and-public/resolving-travel-problems/how-the-caa-can-help/how-the-caa-can-help/

SMarg

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81871921#Comment_81871921

Yes thanks I'm aware of that and as there's not much money involved I'm not too worried but they are likely to do it to others as well

SMarg

Well it took a while to get Vueling to refund me but I got it!

I complained to the CAA who approached them and advised that I was legally due a refund.

It was never about the money - £35 refunded that should have automatically been paid so very satisfied. My argument was that it could have been a £200 flight and they would have done the same.