Hotel Non Refundable booking dispute - Help/advice greaty welcomed

WirralSquirrel55

I recently made a Hotel reservation with 'Holiday Inn, Kettering' for a business contract in Kettering UK, 4 single rooms x 14 nights. The reservation was paid in full at a cost of £4760.00.

However the original work contract changed and we subsequently cancelled this booking 5 days prior to arrival. We cancelled directly with the Kettering Hotel and duely replicated the exact same reservation with the same Holiday Inn chain, but at a location better suited for our work contract.
The new booking was made at Holiday inn, Northampton, which is basically 19 miles away, equating to a 34 minute drive.

I received a cancellation confirmation from the Kettering Hotel and wrongly assummed our payment would be returned?

The Hotel subsequently took the full payment of £4760.00 as a non refundable deposit and will NOT discuss a refund at all. Ive spoken directly with the Hotel Manager in an attempt to negotiate a compromise and have even tried to escalte the complaint to the IHG group, in an attempt to resolve the issue... all to no prevail.
When prompted the hotel manager further confirmed that there was no financial imapact to the Hotel, as the original reservation was cancelled in due time, that the rooms were re-sold.
NB: If i understand correctly, under the Consummer rights Act 2015, any cancellation or forfeiture of payment must be reasonable and reflect the hotesl actual loss?

The one and only conversation directly with the Hotel manager spiralled into a heated exchange, where i was accussed of threatening the manager, because i wanted to travel to the hotel and meet with the management in an attempt to resolve the complaint.

All further corrospondance have been via email to the hotel front desk, still to absolutely no prevail. I am now having to take legal representation and upgrade my complaint to a small claims court.

Turns out this Holiday Inn, Kettering is a francised hotel and the decicion to charge the non-refundable deposit, is totally at the discretion of the Hotel management, which cannot be reversed by the IHG hotel group...

MyRealNameToo

WirralSquirrel55 said:

I recently made a Hotel reservation with 'Holiday Inn, Kettering' for a business contract in Kettering UK, 4 single rooms x 14 nights. The reservation was paid in full at a cost of £4760.00.

However the original work contract changed and we subsequently cancelled this booking 5 days prior to arrival. We cancelled directly with the Kettering Hotel and duely replicated the exact same reservation with the same Holiday Inn chain, but at a location better suited for our work contract.
The new booking was made at Holiday inn, Northampton, which is basically 19 miles away, equating to a 34 minute drive.

I received a cancellation confirmation from the Kettering Hotel and wrongly assummed our payment would be returned?

The Hotel subsequently took the full payment of £4760.00 as a non refundable deposit and will NOT discuss a refund at all. Ive spoken directly with the Hotel Manager in an attempt to negotiate a compromise and have even tried to escalte the complaint to the IHG group, in an attempt to resolve the issue... all to no prevail.
When prompted the hotel manager further confirmed that there was no financial imapact to the Hotel, as the original reservation was cancelled in due time, that the rooms were re-sold.
NB: If i understand correctly, under the Consummer rights Act 2015, any cancellation or forfeiture of payment must be reasonable and reflect the hotesl actual loss?

The one and only conversation directly with the Hotel manager spiralled into a heated exchange, where i was accussed of threatening the manager, because i wanted to travel to the hotel and meet with the management in an attempt to resolve the complaint.

All further corrospondance have been via email to the hotel front desk, still to absolutely no prevail. I am now having to take legal representation and upgrade my complaint to a small claims court.

Turns out this Holiday Inn, Kettering is a francised hotel and the decicion to charge the non-refundable deposit, is totally at the discretion of the Hotel management, which cannot be reversed by the IHG hotel group...

Consumer Rights Act protects consumers, it doesnt protect businesses. You say this was a business to business arrangement so the CRA doesnt apply and is irrelevant. 

As a business you are considered to be big enough and old enough to protect yourself without needing a nanny state to interfere. You are considered to know that you need to read contracts before entering into them and employ lawyers if the contract is big enough to warrant it or too complex for your staff to understand it. 

What does your actual contract state about cancellations? 

It would have been better to do it as a negotiated change to the contract rather than just entering into a second contract and trying to end the first contract. Unfortunately water under the bridge now.

Historically the courts used to be against fixed costs for breaches and instead looked at actual damages but for a fair while now the courts increasingly accept that it makes easier for all parties to have fixed costs known from the outset than the variability of actual damages. Whilst not wholly relevant in this case had they tried to sell the rooms again and failed to do so your bill could have been for more than the £4,760 charged to cover their marketing costs on top of the lost revenue. 

MattMattMattUK

WirralSquirrel55 said:

I recently made a Hotel reservation with 'Holiday Inn, Kettering' for a business contract in Kettering UK, 4 single rooms x 14 nights. The reservation was paid in full at a cost of £4760.00.

However the original work contract changed and we subsequently cancelled this booking 5 days prior to arrival. We cancelled directly with the Kettering Hotel and duely replicated the exact same reservation with the same Holiday Inn chain, but at a location better suited for our work contract.
The new booking was made at Holiday inn, Northampton, which is basically 19 miles away, equating to a 34 minute drive.

I received a cancellation confirmation from the Kettering Hotel and wrongly assummed our payment would be returned?

The Hotel subsequently took the full payment of £4760.00 as a non refundable deposit and will NOT discuss a refund at all. Ive spoken directly with the Hotel Manager in an attempt to negotiate a compromise and have even tried to escalte the complaint to the IHG group, in an attempt to resolve the issue... all to no prevail.
When prompted the hotel manager further confirmed that there was no financial imapact to the Hotel, as the original reservation was cancelled in due time, that the rooms were re-sold.
NB: If i understand correctly, under the Consummer rights Act 2015, any cancellation or forfeiture of payment must be reasonable and reflect the hotesl actual loss?

I think cancelling a non-refundable booking and expecting a full refund was somewhat naive at best. The actual loss has been deemed by the courts to mean that the hotel has sold all rooms/was fully booked for all the nights, do you have it in writing that was the case? However you mention the CRA and that does not apply as this was a business booking, so you would need some other legislation to fall back on. 

WirralSquirrel55 said:

The one and only conversation directly with the Hotel manager spiralled into a heated exchange, where i was accussed of threatening the manager, because i wanted to travel to the hotel and meet with the management in an attempt to resolve the complaint.

Depending on the tone that could very much have been taken as a threat. 

WirralSquirrel55 said:

All further corrospondance have been via email to the hotel front desk, still to absolutely no prevail. I am now having to take legal representation and upgrade my complaint to a small claims court.

You do not need legal representation to take them to the small claims court and any legal feels would be unrecoverable. Equally you need to expect that you will probably lose. 

WirralSquirrel55 said:

Turns out this Holiday Inn, Kettering is a francised hotel and the decicion to charge the non-refundable deposit, is totally at the discretion of the Hotel management, which cannot be reversed by the IHG hotel group...

Nearly all Holiday Inn's are, from memory they only have maybe a dozen owned and operated hotels in the UK now. 

Lunatic will probably be along shortly and he can give the specifics what might apply instead of the CRA.

WirralSquirrel55

We cancelled the booking, 5 days prior to arrival and got a cancellation confirmation number from the Hotel.

The hotel took the payment from a pre authorised credit card. Once we found the deposit had been taken, I called the hotel to try to work something out, but was immediately met with hostility from the duty manager. My apparent threatening tone was a nonsense statement to try and deflect her actions onto me. 

I have accepted that fact that we probably won’t get our deposit back from the Kettering Holiday Inn, but I certainly won’t let it lie.
There is more than one way to skin a rat.

WirralSquirrel55

MyRealNameToo said:

WirralSquirrel55 said:

I recently made a Hotel reservation with 'Holiday Inn, Kettering' for a business contract in Kettering UK, 4 single rooms x 14 nights. The reservation was paid in full at a cost of £4760.00.

However the original work contract changed and we subsequently cancelled this booking 5 days prior to arrival. We cancelled directly with the Kettering Hotel and duely replicated the exact same reservation with the same Holiday Inn chain, but at a location better suited for our work contract.
The new booking was made at Holiday inn, Northampton, which is basically 19 miles away, equating to a 34 minute drive.

I received a cancellation confirmation from the Kettering Hotel and wrongly assummed our payment would be returned?

The Hotel subsequently took the full payment of £4760.00 as a non refundable deposit and will NOT discuss a refund at all. Ive spoken directly with the Hotel Manager in an attempt to negotiate a compromise and have even tried to escalte the complaint to the IHG group, in an attempt to resolve the issue... all to no prevail.
When prompted the hotel manager further confirmed that there was no financial imapact to the Hotel, as the original reservation was cancelled in due time, that the rooms were re-sold.
NB: If i understand correctly, under the Consummer rights Act 2015, any cancellation or forfeiture of payment must be reasonable and reflect the hotesl actual loss?

The one and only conversation directly with the Hotel manager spiralled into a heated exchange, where i was accussed of threatening the manager, because i wanted to travel to the hotel and meet with the management in an attempt to resolve the complaint.

All further corrospondance have been via email to the hotel front desk, still to absolutely no prevail. I am now having to take legal representation and upgrade my complaint to a small claims court.

Turns out this Holiday Inn, Kettering is a francised hotel and the decicion to charge the non-refundable deposit, is totally at the discretion of the Hotel management, which cannot be reversed by the IHG hotel group...

Consumer Rights Act protects consumers, it doesnt protect businesses. You say this was a business to business arrangement so the CRA doesnt apply and is irrelevant. 

As a business you are considered to be big enough and old enough to protect yourself without needing a nanny state to interfere. You are considered to know that you need to read contracts before entering into them and employ lawyers if the contract is big enough to warrant it or too complex for your staff to understand it. 

What does your actual contract state about cancellations? 

It would have been better to do it as a negotiated change to the contract rather than just entering into a second contract and trying to end the first contract. Unfortunately water under the bridge now.

Historically the courts used to be against fixed costs for breaches and instead looked at actual damages but for a fair while now the courts increasingly accept that it makes easier for all parties to have fixed costs known from the outset than the variability of actual damages. Whilst not wholly relevant in this case had they tried to sell the rooms again and failed to do so your bill could have been for more than the £4,760 charged to cover their marketing costs on top of the lost revenue. 

The hotel confirmed that all of the rooms were sold, my cancellation cost them nothing

MyRealNameToo

WirralSquirrel55 said:

MyRealNameToo said:

WirralSquirrel55 said:

I recently made a Hotel reservation with 'Holiday Inn, Kettering' for a business contract in Kettering UK, 4 single rooms x 14 nights. The reservation was paid in full at a cost of £4760.00.

However the original work contract changed and we subsequently cancelled this booking 5 days prior to arrival. We cancelled directly with the Kettering Hotel and duely replicated the exact same reservation with the same Holiday Inn chain, but at a location better suited for our work contract.
The new booking was made at Holiday inn, Northampton, which is basically 19 miles away, equating to a 34 minute drive.

I received a cancellation confirmation from the Kettering Hotel and wrongly assummed our payment would be returned?

The Hotel subsequently took the full payment of £4760.00 as a non refundable deposit and will NOT discuss a refund at all. Ive spoken directly with the Hotel Manager in an attempt to negotiate a compromise and have even tried to escalte the complaint to the IHG group, in an attempt to resolve the issue... all to no prevail.
When prompted the hotel manager further confirmed that there was no financial imapact to the Hotel, as the original reservation was cancelled in due time, that the rooms were re-sold.
NB: If i understand correctly, under the Consummer rights Act 2015, any cancellation or forfeiture of payment must be reasonable and reflect the hotesl actual loss?

The one and only conversation directly with the Hotel manager spiralled into a heated exchange, where i was accussed of threatening the manager, because i wanted to travel to the hotel and meet with the management in an attempt to resolve the complaint.

All further corrospondance have been via email to the hotel front desk, still to absolutely no prevail. I am now having to take legal representation and upgrade my complaint to a small claims court.

Turns out this Holiday Inn, Kettering is a francised hotel and the decicion to charge the non-refundable deposit, is totally at the discretion of the Hotel management, which cannot be reversed by the IHG hotel group...

Consumer Rights Act protects consumers, it doesnt protect businesses. You say this was a business to business arrangement so the CRA doesnt apply and is irrelevant. 

As a business you are considered to be big enough and old enough to protect yourself without needing a nanny state to interfere. You are considered to know that you need to read contracts before entering into them and employ lawyers if the contract is big enough to warrant it or too complex for your staff to understand it. 

What does your actual contract state about cancellations? 

It would have been better to do it as a negotiated change to the contract rather than just entering into a second contract and trying to end the first contract. Unfortunately water under the bridge now.

Historically the courts used to be against fixed costs for breaches and instead looked at actual damages but for a fair while now the courts increasingly accept that it makes easier for all parties to have fixed costs known from the outset than the variability of actual damages. Whilst not wholly relevant in this case had they tried to sell the rooms again and failed to do so your bill could have been for more than the £4,760 charged to cover their marketing costs on top of the lost revenue. 

The hotel confirmed that all of the rooms were sold, my cancellation cost them nothing

They are saying they were totally sold out for the whole period? Seems unlikely, the average occupancy rate for hotels is around 65%

Someone staying in the rooms you had booked isnt the same as them having lost nothing... Google says they have 110 rooms, lets say before your booking was cancelled they had 90 bookings, you cancel your 4 rooms, they go on to sell another 6 rooms before your stay was due to commence meaning 92 rooms are occupied. 

Some may think because someone slept in the room you would have they havent lost anything but thats not the case as had you not cancelled those 6 sales would have still happened and they'd have had 96 rooms occupied and therefore they are down. 

Grumpy_chap

WirralSquirrel55 said:

I recently made a Hotel reservation with 'Holiday Inn, Kettering' for a business contract 

NB: If i understand correctly, under the Consummer rights Act 2015, any cancellation or forfeiture of payment must be reasonable and reflect the hotesl actual loss?

No consumer rights for a business contract.
The terms are solely down to the contract agreed between two businesses.

WirralSquirrel55 said:

The reservation was paid in full at a cost of £4760.00.

However the original work contract changed and we subsequently cancelled this booking
and duely replicated the exact same reservation with the same Holiday Inn chain, but at a location better suited for our work contract.
The new booking was made at Holiday inn, Northampton, which is basically 19 miles away, equating to a 34 minute drive.

Why couldn't you simply commute the 34 minutes between Kettering and Northampton for the fortnight?
What actions did your company take to mitigate the impact of the changes to the work contract?
What is the contract agreement between your company and the Client?  Given the Client changed the contract, what are the mechanisms within the business-to-business contract to recover the costs associated with a change?

sheramber

WirralSquirrel55 said:

MyRealNameToo said:

WirralSquirrel55 said:

I recently made a Hotel reservation with 'Holiday Inn, Kettering' for a business contract in Kettering UK, 4 single rooms x 14 nights. The reservation was paid in full at a cost of £4760.00.

However the original work contract changed and we subsequently cancelled this booking 5 days prior to arrival. We cancelled directly with the Kettering Hotel and duely replicated the exact same reservation with the same Holiday Inn chain, but at a location better suited for our work contract.
The new booking was made at Holiday inn, Northampton, which is basically 19 miles away, equating to a 34 minute drive.

I received a cancellation confirmation from the Kettering Hotel and wrongly assummed our payment would be returned?

The Hotel subsequently took the full payment of £4760.00 as a non refundable deposit and will NOT discuss a refund at all. Ive spoken directly with the Hotel Manager in an attempt to negotiate a compromise and have even tried to escalte the complaint to the IHG group, in an attempt to resolve the issue... all to no prevail.
When prompted the hotel manager further confirmed that there was no financial imapact to the Hotel, as the original reservation was cancelled in due time, that the rooms were re-sold.
NB: If i understand correctly, under the Consummer rights Act 2015, any cancellation or forfeiture of payment must be reasonable and reflect the hotesl actual loss?

The one and only conversation directly with the Hotel manager spiralled into a heated exchange, where i was accussed of threatening the manager, because i wanted to travel to the hotel and meet with the management in an attempt to resolve the complaint.

All further corrospondance have been via email to the hotel front desk, still to absolutely no prevail. I am now having to take legal representation and upgrade my complaint to a small claims court.

Turns out this Holiday Inn, Kettering is a francised hotel and the decicion to charge the non-refundable deposit, is totally at the discretion of the Hotel management, which cannot be reversed by the IHG hotel group...

Consumer Rights Act protects consumers, it doesnt protect businesses. You say this was a business to business arrangement so the CRA doesnt apply and is irrelevant. 

As a business you are considered to be big enough and old enough to protect yourself without needing a nanny state to interfere. You are considered to know that you need to read contracts before entering into them and employ lawyers if the contract is big enough to warrant it or too complex for your staff to understand it. 

What does your actual contract state about cancellations? 

It would have been better to do it as a negotiated change to the contract rather than just entering into a second contract and trying to end the first contract. Unfortunately water under the bridge now.

Historically the courts used to be against fixed costs for breaches and instead looked at actual damages but for a fair while now the courts increasingly accept that it makes easier for all parties to have fixed costs known from the outset than the variability of actual damages. Whilst not wholly relevant in this case had they tried to sell the rooms again and failed to do so your bill could have been for more than the £4,760 charged to cover their marketing costs on top of the lost revenue. 

The hotel confirmed that all of the rooms were sold, my cancellation cost them nothing

Did your rooms count as sold since it was paid for?? 

Car1980

1. Depends entirely on the T&Cs. Tell us exactly what it says and exactly how they were brought to your attention.
2. A Section 75 claim because of your credit card payment would be a better first route than county court. But entirely depends on the contract.

itsthelittlethings

Were the bookings flexible, ie you had the right to cancel or not? It’s usually pretty obvious when you book.

EnPointe

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6650460/hotel-non-refundable-booking-dispute-help-advice-greaty-welcomed

not quite sure why you think a B2B transaction is covered by the CRA ?