eBay - fragile item arrived very poorly packed, unable to test - could I return?

baileywin2

I bought a used car fuel injector for ~£100 from a business seller on eBay.

The item arrived wrapped in a carrier bag (not a mailing bag), loose inside an oversize box. It came through my letter box with a "thud" of the tip hitting the floor.

To be fair, it looks fine - but it's a precision piece of equipment that precisely measures fuel using vibrating crystals. I'm unable to test it works properly without:

• fitting to the car, which involves also fitting other one-time-use seals etc
• sending it away to a specialist to be bench tested with a report, but again at a cost

I'm not comfortable using it and would rather return it and buy from somewhere that's heard of bubble wrap...

The problem is that in eBay-land the options are:

1. "damaged during delivery" / "defective" - is it damaged? can't tell
2. "changed my mind" - I have to pay postage

I'll probably have to go for (2) but seems a little unfair. Any other thoughts?

se2020

Seeing as it's designed to last 100k miles with the heat and stress of a vibrating car engine bouncing along bumpy roads I'd expect it to survive a drop onto a door mat.

I wouldn't think it was fair to the seller if they had to cover the cost of the return on an item that may well be perfectly fine.
You also run the risk that the seller has the ability to test it themselves,  finds out that it is fine, and reports you for abuse of the returns process.
You only get so many of those before it causes issues with your own ebay account. 

Even if you pay for the return postage the seller still loses the cost of the outward postage plus the time spent packing it so that would protect your account and teach the seller a lesson in packaging requirements. Just do a 'changed mind' return and add a note saying you didn't want to risk the time and cost of fitting it as you were concerned it was potentially damaged in transit due to lack of packaging.

ProcessMatters

If you can’t evidence an actual fault and haven’t tested it, “changed my mind” is the safest option for your own account.

Marking it as defective without proof risks a dispute if the seller tests it and finds it fine, and repeated INAD returns can count against buyers.

Paying the return protects your account and avoids any accusation of return abuse. You can still leave factual feedback about inadequate packaging if you feel it contributed to the concern.

It’s not ideal, but procedurally it’s the lowest-risk route.

XzavierWalnut

se2020 said:

Seeing as it's designed to last 100k miles with the heat and stress of a vibrating car engine bouncing along bumpy roads I'd expect it to survive a drop onto a door mat.

I wouldn't think it was fair to the seller if they had to cover the cost of the return on an item that may well be perfectly fine.
You also run the risk that the seller has the ability to test it themselves,  finds out that it is fine, and reports you for abuse of the returns process.
You only get so many of those before it causes issues with your own ebay account. 

Even if you pay for the return postage the seller still loses the cost of the outward postage plus the time spent packing it so that would protect your account and teach the seller a lesson in packaging requirements. Just do a 'changed mind' return and add a note saying you didn't want to risk the time and cost of fitting it as you were concerned it was potentially damaged in transit due to lack of packaging.

Just to clarify, sellers do not pay any outward postage anymore. The Buyer pays it at time of purchase.

savergrant

XzavierWalnut said:

se2020 said:

Seeing as it's designed to last 100k miles with the heat and stress of a vibrating car engine bouncing along bumpy roads I'd expect it to survive a drop onto a door mat.

I wouldn't think it was fair to the seller if they had to cover the cost of the return on an item that may well be perfectly fine.
You also run the risk that the seller has the ability to test it themselves,  finds out that it is fine, and reports you for abuse of the returns process.
You only get so many of those before it causes issues with your own ebay account. 

Even if you pay for the return postage the seller still loses the cost of the outward postage plus the time spent packing it so that would protect your account and teach the seller a lesson in packaging requirements. Just do a 'changed mind' return and add a note saying you didn't want to risk the time and cost of fitting it as you were concerned it was potentially damaged in transit due to lack of packaging.

Just to clarify, sellers do not pay any outward postage anymore. The Buyer pays it at time of purchase.

Not necessarily. Simple delivery is compulsory for most private sales (except for some letter sized items) but is very hit and miss for business sellers. Most business sales the seller will contract and pay the postage, but may charge the buyer a postage fee. Free postage means the seller pays, not that the carrier works for nothing ( cf FREEPOST)
With simple delivery ebay will contract and pay the postage, and charge either the buyer or the seller, according to the listing specifications. I have some listings where I pay, but most listings are buyer pays.

se2020

There is no such thing as 'free postage'
Either the buyer pays postage on top of the item price ie. £95 for the injector plus £5 postage
Or, it is shown as 'free' but the seller pays it. Ie. The buyer pays £100, seller pays £5 for post and is left with £95.
In either situation the seller receives money from the buyer then uses £5 of it to purchase the postage label. 

Either way, 
If a buyer returns an item as faulty or damaged they get provided the return label (which the seller pays for and a refund of the full amount originally paid.
Ie, buyer gets a £100 refund. Seller looses £10 as they have paid for 2 lots of postage. 

If the buyer does a 'change of mind' return then the buyer pays return postage but still gets the full original £100 refunded.  The 1st postage lhas already been used so the seller still looses out that £5.


Car parts are one of the worst categories for returns. Sellers know buyers often don't know (or bother to check) they are ordering the correct part, or they do not correctly identify a fault so the new part does not fix the problem or, worst, they order a working part then return the old faulty part.
Plus all the buyers that buy a part then find out the garage they take it too won't fit parts they haven't supplied.
That's why (apart from the loss of postage) most car parts sellers test the parts they get back and report the buyer if they think the buyer is abusing the returns process. 

If I was the seller I'd be suspicious of a return on this item. I'd think it was very unlikely an injector would get damaged in the post. Especially if the buyer only thought it 'might' have been damaged and there was nothing wrong with it when I tested it.
I'd be thinking the buyer had just ordered the wrong part and wanted a refund.

Maybe if the buyer contacted me first and offered to pay for the outward postage I'd refund without reporting them.
Otherwise I'd be reporting them and blocking them as well. Additionally,  if it was returned as faulty but turned out to be fine I would be putting there username on various car parts selling pages so others could block them as well!

XzavierWalnut

savergrant said:

XzavierWalnut said:

se2020 said:

Seeing as it's designed to last 100k miles with the heat and stress of a vibrating car engine bouncing along bumpy roads I'd expect it to survive a drop onto a door mat.

I wouldn't think it was fair to the seller if they had to cover the cost of the return on an item that may well be perfectly fine.
You also run the risk that the seller has the ability to test it themselves,  finds out that it is fine, and reports you for abuse of the returns process.
You only get so many of those before it causes issues with your own ebay account. 

Even if you pay for the return postage the seller still loses the cost of the outward postage plus the time spent packing it so that would protect your account and teach the seller a lesson in packaging requirements. Just do a 'changed mind' return and add a note saying you didn't want to risk the time and cost of fitting it as you were concerned it was potentially damaged in transit due to lack of packaging.

Just to clarify, sellers do not pay any outward postage anymore. The Buyer pays it at time of purchase.

Not necessarily. Simple delivery is compulsory for most private sales (except for some letter sized items) but is very hit and miss for business sellers. Most business sales the seller will contract and pay the postage, but may charge the buyer a postage fee. Free postage means the seller pays, not that the carrier works for nothing ( cf FREEPOST)
With simple delivery ebay will contract and pay the postage, and charge either the buyer or the seller, according to the listing specifications. I have some listings where I pay, but most listings are buyer pays.

Yes good point. I did not think about business sellers.

savergrant

se2020 said:

There is no such thing as 'free postage'
Either the buyer pays postage on top of the item price ie. £95 for the injector plus £5 postage
Or, it is shown as 'free' but the seller pays it. Ie. The buyer pays £100, seller pays £5 for post and is left with £95.
In either situation the seller receives money from the buyer then uses £5 of it to purchase the postage label. 

Either way, 
If a buyer returns an item as faulty or damaged they get provided the return label (which the seller pays for and a refund of the full amount originally paid.
Ie, buyer gets a £100 refund. Seller looses £10 as they have paid for 2 lots of postage. 

If the buyer does a 'change of mind' return then the buyer pays return postage but still gets the full original £100 refunded.  The 1st postage lhas already been used so the seller still looses out that £5.


Car parts are one of the worst categories for returns. Sellers know buyers often don't know (or bother to check) they are ordering the correct part, or they do not correctly identify a fault so the new part does not fix the problem or, worst, they order a working part then return the old faulty part.
Plus all the buyers that buy a part then find out the garage they take it too won't fit parts they haven't supplied.
That's why (apart from the loss of postage) most car parts sellers test the parts they get back and report the buyer if they think the buyer is abusing the returns process. 

If I was the seller I'd be suspicious of a return on this item. I'd think it was very unlikely an injector would get damaged in the post. Especially if the buyer only thought it 'might' have been damaged and there was nothing wrong with it when I tested it.
I'd be thinking the buyer had just ordered the wrong part and wanted a refund.

Maybe if the buyer contacted me first and offered to pay for the outward postage I'd refund without reporting them.
Otherwise I'd be reporting them and blocking them as well. Additionally,  if it was returned as faulty but turned out to be fine I would be putting there username on various car parts selling pages so others could block them as well!

Free postage means you do not pay extra for postage, as compared to going to collect the item yourself. It means the seller absorbs the postage costs in order to increase their marketability.
With ebay simple delivery ebay arranges the courier and provides the seller with a label/qr code, either billing the buyer as a surcharge or deducting the cost from the sales' proceeds and then passing the balance to the seller. I don't know what happens in the event of an item being returned (either as an agreed change of mind or as faulty/not as described) as the amount paid by the buyer and amount received by the seller are different.

se2020

savergrant said:

se2020 said:

There is no such thing as 'free postage'
Either the buyer pays postage on top of the item price ie. £95 for the injector plus £5 postage
Or, it is shown as 'free' but the seller pays it. Ie. The buyer pays £100, seller pays £5 for post and is left with £95.
In either situation the seller receives money from the buyer then uses £5 of it to purchase the postage label. 

Either way, 
If a buyer returns an item as faulty or damaged they get provided the return label (which the seller pays for and a refund of the full amount originally paid.
Ie, buyer gets a £100 refund. Seller looses £10 as they have paid for 2 lots of postage. 

If the buyer does a 'change of mind' return then the buyer pays return postage but still gets the full original £100 refunded.  The 1st postage lhas already been used so the seller still looses out that £5.


Car parts are one of the worst categories for returns. Sellers know buyers often don't know (or bother to check) they are ordering the correct part, or they do not correctly identify a fault so the new part does not fix the problem or, worst, they order a working part then return the old faulty part.
Plus all the buyers that buy a part then find out the garage they take it too won't fit parts they haven't supplied.
That's why (apart from the loss of postage) most car parts sellers test the parts they get back and report the buyer if they think the buyer is abusing the returns process. 

If I was the seller I'd be suspicious of a return on this item. I'd think it was very unlikely an injector would get damaged in the post. Especially if the buyer only thought it 'might' have been damaged and there was nothing wrong with it when I tested it.
I'd be thinking the buyer had just ordered the wrong part and wanted a refund.

Maybe if the buyer contacted me first and offered to pay for the outward postage I'd refund without reporting them.
Otherwise I'd be reporting them and blocking them as well. Additionally,  if it was returned as faulty but turned out to be fine I would be putting there username on various car parts selling pages so others could block them as well!

Free postage means you do not pay extra for postage, as compared to going to collect the item yourself. It means the seller absorbs the postage costs in order to increase their marketability.
With ebay simple delivery ebay arranges the courier and provides the seller with a label/qr code, either billing the buyer as a surcharge or deducting the cost from the sales' proceeds and then passing the balance to the seller. I don't know what happens in the event of an item being returned (either as an agreed change of mind or as faulty/not as described) as the amount paid by the buyer and amount received by the seller are different.

The amount originally paid by the buyer is refunded.
So the amount the seller recived gets refunded to the buyer then the amount/fees ebay took also gets refunded (by ebay)

If the buyer originally paid extra for postage they get a refund of that amount as well.
But, the seller has provided the original postage label and they don't get a refund for that.
If the item was free postage the seller still looses out as they obviously can't actually get postage labels for free.

The seller has to purchase the postage label regardless of who pays for it. If the buyer pays the seller receives extra from the sale then uses that extra to buy the lable.
As the full amount gets refunded (from the sellers account) the seller still looses the original cost of the postage as that does not get refunded to them.

If the item was reported as faulty the seller also gets the cost of the return label deducted from their account. 
If it's a change of mind return the buyer has to pay for the postage label to send the item back with.

But either way, it costs the seller for the original dispatch. 

savergrant

se2020 said:

savergrant said:

se2020 said:

There is no such thing as 'free postage'
Either the buyer pays postage on top of the item price ie. £95 for the injector plus £5 postage
Or, it is shown as 'free' but the seller pays it. Ie. The buyer pays £100, seller pays £5 for post and is left with £95.
In either situation the seller receives money from the buyer then uses £5 of it to purchase the postage label. 

Either way, 
If a buyer returns an item as faulty or damaged they get provided the return label (which the seller pays for and a refund of the full amount originally paid.
Ie, buyer gets a £100 refund. Seller looses £10 as they have paid for 2 lots of postage. 

If the buyer does a 'change of mind' return then the buyer pays return postage but still gets the full original £100 refunded.  The 1st postage lhas already been used so the seller still looses out that £5.


Car parts are one of the worst categories for returns. Sellers know buyers often don't know (or bother to check) they are ordering the correct part, or they do not correctly identify a fault so the new part does not fix the problem or, worst, they order a working part then return the old faulty part.
Plus all the buyers that buy a part then find out the garage they take it too won't fit parts they haven't supplied.
That's why (apart from the loss of postage) most car parts sellers test the parts they get back and report the buyer if they think the buyer is abusing the returns process. 

If I was the seller I'd be suspicious of a return on this item. I'd think it was very unlikely an injector would get damaged in the post. Especially if the buyer only thought it 'might' have been damaged and there was nothing wrong with it when I tested it.
I'd be thinking the buyer had just ordered the wrong part and wanted a refund.

Maybe if the buyer contacted me first and offered to pay for the outward postage I'd refund without reporting them.
Otherwise I'd be reporting them and blocking them as well. Additionally,  if it was returned as faulty but turned out to be fine I would be putting there username on various car parts selling pages so others could block them as well!

Free postage means you do not pay extra for postage, as compared to going to collect the item yourself. It means the seller absorbs the postage costs in order to increase their marketability.
With ebay simple delivery ebay arranges the courier and provides the seller with a label/qr code, either billing the buyer as a surcharge or deducting the cost from the sales' proceeds and then passing the balance to the seller. I don't know what happens in the event of an item being returned (either as an agreed change of mind or as faulty/not as described) as the amount paid by the buyer and amount received by the seller are different.

The amount originally paid by the buyer is refunded.
So the amount the seller recived gets refunded to the buyer then the amount/fees ebay took also gets refunded (by ebay)

If the buyer originally paid extra for postage they get a refund of that amount as well.
But, the seller has provided the original postage label and they don't get a refund for that.
If the item was free postage the seller still looses out as they obviously can't actually get postage labels for free.

The seller has to purchase the postage label regardless of who pays for it. If the buyer pays the seller receives extra from the sale then uses that extra to buy the lable.
As the full amount gets refunded (from the sellers account) the seller still looses the original cost of the postage as that does not get refunded to them.

If the item was reported as faulty the seller also gets the cost of the return label deducted from their account. 
If it's a change of mind return the buyer has to pay for the postage label to send the item back with.

But either way, it costs the seller for the original dispatch. 

"The seller has to purchase the postage label regardless of who pays for it. If the buyer pays the seller receives extra from the sale then uses that extra to buy the lable."

This is not true for simple delivery/buyer pays option. In that case the seller has no input in postage prices and does not receive the money. The cost of postage is not part of the order total for the seller.

prowla

se2020 said:

Seeing as it's designed to last 100k miles with the heat and stress of a vibrating car engine bouncing along bumpy roads I'd expect it to survive a drop onto a door mat.

I wouldn't think it was fair to the seller if they had to cover the cost of the return on an item that may well be perfectly fine.
You also run the risk that the seller has the ability to test it themselves,  finds out that it is fine, and reports you for abuse of the returns process.
You only get so many of those before it causes issues with your own ebay account. 

Even if you pay for the return postage the seller still loses the cost of the outward postage plus the time spent packing it so that would protect your account and teach the seller a lesson in packaging requirements. Just do a 'changed mind' return and add a note saying you didn't want to risk the time and cost of fitting it as you were concerned it was potentially damaged in transit due to lack of packaging.

Depends whether it was the tip of the nozzle that hit the floor first; that's a delicate precision part.