Moving from BT to Zen Internet

QrizB

FlatFour said:

Is they any explanation why our address pays more?

Having worked through enough friends & family addresses to find one that gets full fibre not FTTC I'm seeing the same £35pm without phone / £40 with phone that iniltous shared.

I can't explain why your address is so expensive; are you off the beaten track in some way, on an island or something?

Edit to add a screenshot of the no-phone offer:

iniltous

I can’t explain why you are not getting the price I see and QrizB does (have you even looked on line using a neighbour property, you don’t need to progress to an order to see these prices , that’s if your own address shows a much higher price , but what’s clear is that it’s the standard price albeit for new customers but you are a new customer of Zen so the comparison needs to be that, new customers as when you get to the end if the term with Zen , who knows what price you will be presented with .

As far as getting a relatively poor retention offer compared to what a new customer gets that’s not unique to BT , but  I  renewed with BT very recently , and the email retention offer was only around £1 more than a new customer, I tried to renew online , happy enough with that , but the online method failed , I called BT  only because the on line renewal didn’t work , and they matched the new customer price anyway without any threat to leave or anything like that .

If your renewal price is so far from the normal price it suggests something unusual with your BT account , but irrespective, your assertion that you are saving £20 a month  doesn’t really stack up.

BT don’t do regional pricing , although clearly when calling they may offer better deals where competition is high , again nothing unique to BT about that , but that doesn’t apply to the website  , and where I am ( the North East )  , with only Virgin as an alternative so not a competition heavy area likely to get better offers than you  , so where both myself and  QrizB reside doesn’t really matter …it’s your individual account , products , or whatever that influences your price and renewal, losing the extras or if simply overpaying as a legacy customer on an out of date product doesn’t disqualify you from current packages , as stated try using a neighbour address on BT’s site to see for yourself.

FlatFour

Something isn't right here.  When logged in, the ONLY 900mbps product shown is the one I'm on, £67 PCM.  Just like my renewal.  When NOT logged in, and using another address in the area - same post code - I can see a £39 900 mbps option - £35 but immediately going to £39, so it's shown as £39 in my basket.  What's different about my 900mbps?  I dig further...

Digging more, BT seem to be charging me for their "Halo 3" product - that's what it's showed as in my renewal, which has various extras.  That's not what I'm on, just regular 900.  Yet their "special" £30.99 deal is just for the regular 900 mbps package - the one I'm actually on, but wasn't billed for!  This might explain the price discrepancy - and why it's gone up so much.  Here's what it says about "halo 3"

BT Halo 3

• Speed: Same 900 Mbps base speed.
• Benefits: Adds features like Home Tech Experts, Price Promise, Double Mobile Data, and a standard 4G Mini Hub backup.
• Router: Smart Hub 2. 

BT Halo 3+ (The Premium Version)

• Speed: Same 900 Mbps base speed.
• Hardware: Smart Hub 2 & Hybrid Connect (uses EE 4G/5G for seamless backup, no manual mini-hub needed).
• WiFi: Complete WiFi (WiFi discs for whole-home coverage).
• Support: Home Tech Experts & annual check-ups.
• Mobile: Double data on BT/EE plans. 

I don't have any "halo" feature, just a regular 900 mbps connection.  As such, I get:

No "home tech experts" just regular support (not great) when there was an issue.  Aka they just pass it on to Openreach.

No Price Promise - I got the yearly in-contract price increases.  Halo says "no in-contract price increases" on their website.

No Double Mobile Data - irrelevant, my Mobile isn't with BT/EE so that doesn't apply

No 4G Mini Hub Backup - irrelevant, there's no Mobile Signal here, so it'd be pointless any way.

No Wifi Discs and no offer to provide any - most of my stuff is hard-wired, bar an old laptop.

No Annual Check-ups.

No Double-double mobile data.

It's like they've signed me up - without my knowledge or consent - for a product with a lot of "fluff" that's just irrelevant for me.  So, I signed up for regular 900mbps Fibre broadband originally, moving from their prior fastest( in this area) 500 mbps product, and seem to have been billed like I'm on some premium package.  No wonder BT has always felt so expensive.  Going in via my account doesn't give the cheaper options for 900mbps.  I only saw them by going in anonymously.  The thing is, none of the cheaper packages are visible to me if I'm logged in.

I think "something" happened and my prices went up as I got changed to this "added fluff" package, but never got (or asked for, or wanted) this added fluff.  I was then "locked-in" and unable to see regular pricing any more.

Reading elsewhere, it seems that "halo 3" costs but not benefits were getting added by agents at renewal without the agreement of the customers...  dodgy.  They lock you in, but then never show you the regular price for things again.

BT have just gotten more and more expensive, with cheaper options (like for included minutes) being withdrawn for more expensive options with more minutes... 500 was always plenty, but having to pay more than double for more excess minutes is why I stopped getting inclusive minutes - a feature of PAYG minutes.

Basically, it seem that BT have incorrectly been billing me for some "premium" product I don't have, never had, don't want, didn't ask for as couldn't use anyway.  When logging in no "regular" 900 mbps products are listed for me, so I've been none the wiser.  Every time I did a check for my address, I just got the product I was already on, no cheaper option offered.  Only pretending to be someone else actually showed me the cheaper price others are seeing.  This is just nuts!

iniltous

Ignoring the obvious, that you almost certainly agreed to taking Halo at some point , if you recon you never agreed to its provision , ask BT for it to be checked ( the calls listened to , a copy of the contract email sent at the time  ) but years after , arguably you should have questioned what you were paying for before now , Halo has always nearly doubled the basic cost of broadband, and as detailed later , some equipment should be delivered even if you never use it , you still get the ‘kit’ .

If you don’t receive or need Halo’s   ‘benefits’ then clearly it was an unwise decision to take it (I’ll assume you did agree even if you don’t recall ) , however the Hybrid Connect (a 4g router that takes over if your landline goes down ) clearly has a value , and you should get that equipment provided even if it’s never used in anger , the whole home WiFi is more variable, if the standard router covers the entire home , then paying for whole home WiFi is pointless, (equally only using wired devices makes a mockery of taking a WiFi extension device) as far as getting the WiFi discs supplied, I don’t know if you need to ask for them ,  or they supply the first one automatically but I believe you can request several if the  property needs several to cover its entire area , the yearly visit needs to be booked but again is of variable value if nothing changes year to year , and the onus is on you to arrange it , not BT , and the double data on mobile plans again much depends on what mobile plan you have , obviously having a mobile with Vodafone for example makes this  benefit pointless , as would having unlimited data with BT/EE , no point doubling unlimited.

The Halo price match , guarantees you not to pay more than a new Halo customer , you can’t compare the Halo price to a basic customer without Halo price , possibly (deliberately ) misleading wording is used , but a moments thought should get the customer to realise it’s only applicable to Halo and not to basic service customers.

I‘m not defending or promoting BT Halo 3+ BTW , its a product I’d avoid simply  because  apparently is very difficult to remove once you have it , but it clearly can be useful to the right person , possibly with a very large house , susceptible to the line going off , with a BT mobile and who wants a visit every year to confirm their setup is ‘optimal’ , but that’s a pretty small subset IMHO .

I suppose the conclusion is now pretty clear , you have Halo , your renewal is based on renewing Halo , so your Zen comparison is unfair , and why  the disparity on price compared to a BT basic same speed service .

It’s  difficult to quantify ( put a price ) on the real benefits of Halo but BT used to state that Halo represented a saving on the individual elements pricing  , as a very rough tally , Hybrid connect is  £8, Whole home is  £10, double data maybe £5+, it’s the home visit that’s difficult to price , probably £120 ( picked that figure so it’s an easy yearly division to £10 monthly ) but they would argue it’s ‘worth £33’ for £20 or whatever they charge you .

If you are convinced you never agreed , and never noticed paying twice what other non Halo BT customers were paying , contact BT about it , probably the best way via the executive complaints process 

FlatFour

iniltous said:

Ignoring the obvious, that you agreed to taking Halo at some point ,

If you don’t receive or need it’s  ‘benefits’ then clearly it was an unwise decision to take it  , however the Hybrid Connect (a 4g router that takes over if your landline goes down ) clearly has a value , and you should get that equipment even if it’s never used in anger , the whole home WiFi is more variable, if the standard router covers the entire home , then paying for whole home is pointless, as far as getting the WiFi discs I don’t know if you need to ask first them ,  or they supply the first one automatically but I believe you can get several if the  property needs several to cover the entire area , the yearly visit needed a to be booked but again is of variable value if nothing changes year to year , and the double data on mobile plans again much depends on what mobile plan you have , obviously having a mobile with Vodafone for example makes this  benefit pointless .
The Halo price match , guarantees not to pay more than a new Halo customer , you can’t compare the Halo price to a basic customer without Halo price , possibly (deliberate) misleading wording but a moments thought should get the customer to realise it’s only applicable to Halo.

Im not defending or promoting Halo 3+ BTW , its a product I’d avoid simply  because it’s apparently is very difficult to remove once you have it , but it clearly can be useful to the right person , possibly with a very large house , susceptible to the line going off , with a BT mobile and who wants a visit every year to confirm their setup is ‘optimal’ .

I suppose the conclusion is now pretty clear , you have Halo , your renewal is based on renewing Halo , hence the disparity on price compared to a basic same speed service , it’s difficult to quantify the real benefits but BT used to state that Halo represented a saving on the individual elements , as a very rough tally , Hybrid connect £8, Whole home £10, double data maybe £5+, it’s the home vusit that’s difficult to price , probably £120 (just so it’s an easy yearly division to £10) but they would argue it’s ‘worth £33’ for £20 or whatever they charge you .

If I agreed to it, then it wasn't explained at all.  I.e. I did not agree to it if details were omitted.

There's no way I would pay extra for:

 - Mobile Data when I don't use, nor plan to use their Mobile Network.

 - 4G Mini-Hub / Hybrid Connect.  Pointless as it'd never work here.  Really, signal black spot, it's a pain.

 - Wifi Discs.  Pointless, I have one old laptop on Wifi and it works just fine. I can even access WiFi on the driveway.

If, at any point, I was asked "would you like to pay extra for these" the answer would have been "No".  I was not asked.

This "Halo" product is the only 900 mbps product I get offered if I log in.  I signed up for the only 900 mbps they offered me, no alternatives presented.  That's at best scummy sales technique.

Basically, I asked to upgrade to a 900 mbps product, from 500mbps, but was solid a bunch of worthless extras on top.  Presented with no alternatives it's impossible to choose.

Yes, I perhaps should have checked more closely.  However, I wasn't given options, so had no idea what they'd done.  I think this is just a case of a sales person pushing a more expensive product, totally neglecting the customers requirements and omitting better options.

BT, at best, both misled and mis-sold me.  I suppose my being used to expensive - at least relative to the speed - broadband due to that old rubbish ADSL connection, the pricing of something significantly faster didn't ring any alarm bells.  Aka, I trusted I was being sold the product I asked for.  Just 900 mbps, no discussion of any extras other than the phone line.  Note that, at the time getting Fibre, the Phone line was still on copper.  We got moved to the VOIP service some time later.  Actually far sooner than the "next three years" estimate.

Don't get me wrong, I can see how Halo 3/3+ might be perfect for some.  Large house, several people (adults + kids for example) all benefitting from house-wide solid Wifi coverage, a backup option so little Timmy can still do his online homework if the connection goes out and mobile plans for everyone.  I get it.  However, NONE of this was even discussed with me.  It was a simple, I'm on 500 mbps, I see that I can get 900 mbps now, can I have that please.  That's it.  If I was explicitly asked if I'd like to pay extra for various things I'd never ever use, I'd of course have said no.  The fact that I was signed up for them anyway, speaks volumes.  As does the lack of visibility on other deals when I sign in.  I literally just thought BT was getting obscenely expensive vs. others.

Edit: meant to share that I'm far from the only one being sold unwanted extras.

Summary of what people have reported, indeed, I've found various examples of this myself:

Unrequested Extras: Reports of "Halo" packages (3 or 3+) being added, which include extras like "Hybrid Connect" (4G backup) and "Complete WiFi" that may not have been requested.
Overcharging/Higher Fees: Charges that do not match the agreed price, often driven by unexpected add-ons or hidden,, significant price increases after an initial period.
Unauthorised Contract Changes: Cases where a new, more expensive contract was set up or extended without the customer's permission

This was the result of a Google search on BT unrequested extras and charged more.

As mentioned, only being quoted the higher "halo" price when enquiring about an upgrade to 900 mbps, didn't give me anything to work with.  I thought speaking directly to someone was how to get the best deal, but with no regular options being offered when logged in to my account, I was totally unaware of the cheaper options... which led to this entire thread.

iniltous

If you log onto the website it shows products that they think may be of interest to you , it’s not an exhaustive list ,and never pretends to be , you probably now have already demonstrated this to yourself when you use the site without logging on or using a neighbouring address , if you had 500Mb (for example ) then it’s reasonable to assume the only product they think you may be interested in is 900Mb , no point offering what you already have , and it’s bad business to offer slower (cheaper ) speeds , but it’s just their suggestion, calling BT opens up all options.

It’s now not clear ( to me at least ) what product you had , and what you were paying  before your switch to Zen , were you on Halo on 500Mb or not , so was the Halo service ever  paid for ?  was it  you never  had Halo but  you thought  the only option available to you if taking 900Mb was Halo 900 because of the website ?, FWIW , I’ve never seen Halo offered via the web as BT  would need to put a price on it , something noticeable by it’s absence, it’s my understanding Halo is only quoted on existing Halo customer renewals , on new business arranged over the phone , or as a ‘cold call’ adding it mid contract to existing customers as it’s always an upsell and not a website offer which makes no sense if it were a website ‘offer’ that persuaded you Halo was the only option.


Obviously I can’t say what was said ( if you did have a conversation with BT about Halo ) but I’ve always been advised of the cost , the costs of any ‘extras’ , the costs have been clear on the email confirmation , and I would research in advance to know what price represents a decent deal …as with all things it’s caveat emptor, but I’d be surprised if anything untrue or misleading was ever said .

As stated , if you were paying  for Halo but never agreed to it , challenge it , if you thought Halo was necessary to get 900Mb when it isn’t and the BT ‘lied’ , if you never took it (just baulked at the price ) and joined Zen because of that price it’s more difficult to complain as you never took the ‘offer’ even if it were misrepresented.

I may well be missing something , often when the original posters  comments are usurped and the thread goes off on a tangent but it initially seemed to me , you simply said moving to Zen was saving money in the order of £20 a month  , when a direct comparison shows that to be untrue , it may be a little pointless but perhaps you can fill in the gaps .

M25

I decided to jump ship to EE from Zen.

Several reasons main one being it looked like Zen were fitting a 2nd box I'd rather not have that.



Also MSE https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/compare-broadband-deals/broadband-only/ showed up EE for £47.99 PM. That 1600MBPS wasn't showing last I looked.

Moving to EE means no £15 setup fee, no Plusnet charge for 3 month remaining contract (BT group don't charge for that IME) and of course quite a saving over the contract period. 

Yes, dodgy yearly increases.

And a £160 gift card (I assume it's one of those Visa type debit cards) which'll cover the scam contract rises for the next 24 months.

The money I've saved will pay for another eero Max or Pro 7 to my network. I do prefer my own kit.

In 2 years maybe there'll be a bit more availability here (only BT and Zen at the moment).

AstonSmith

Thanks for sharing your experience, I appreciate it.

It'd be good if you could share how things go, I plan to do the same once the process is complete - though I'm yet to start it lol.

Everything went fine. I got an e-mail at about 1am from BT saying they'd stopped the voice service, and then two e-mails from Zen soon after to say the Digital Voice (VOIP) for my number was now live. I moved the phone cable from the socket to the router. The Fritz!Box correctly shows the number in the control panel.

(Since everyone's now talking about FTTP products, I'd like to add that I'm on FTTC but Zen said they'd upgrade me to FTTP for free within the contract minimum term if it was installed on my road, although I doubt that it'll happen anytime ever.)

FlatFour

Update:

I got a call from BT yesterday, offering me an even better deal - £26.99, going up £4 on March 31st.  They also did a better price than I was originally offered for calls.  £10 for unlimited.  Unlike previously, this remains £10 a month for the full 24 month term.  When I had included minutes before, it went up every year.

So, I did not proceed with the migration to Zen.  The BT chap who called me transferred me to them.  I felt a bit bad backing out of the deal, but it is what it is.

Still annoyed with BT, or at least the sales person I spoke to at the time, that they obviously pushed those extras on me I didn't ask for and couldn't even use.  Basically, when you're told there is ONE 900 mbps product and it costs a given amount... well, I had no reason not to believe them.  All that time, I could have had the exact same speed - literally nothing would have been different - for a substantial saving.

However, with this much better deal, I'm at least saving now.  Looking around online this seems to be a fairly common practise.  When you don't know, you don't know of course.

One odd thing, my new contract starts 21st Jan, not 1st Feb after my current one ends.  Sorta good to get the savings sooner, but I've already paid for January... not quite sure what my next bill will be.

So, yeah, I've learnt how BT deliberately hide options from customers.  Both on the website, and when directly speaking to them.  I always thought that BT were just expensive, they were the only one offering Fibre for a little while here.  Originally there was ONE Fibre product: 300 mbps.  Then they added 500mbps, then 900 mbps.  I just got the faster option as it became available.  At some point, my account was "halo'd" adding lots of cost for zero value.

FlatFour

@M25 - oddly, here, only Zen offer 1,600mbps, BT do not currently.  Do they really add a second box (second line?) to get that speed?  I thought a single fibre could support up to 10gbps, with proper hardware both in the home and exchange.  Still, I don't really know that much about this tech.

From a pure service perspective, BT have been fine.  The speeds are as expected (over 900 down, over 100 up) consistently.  They do like to remotely reboot the router every few days (between one and two weeks typically) - I can see this in the activity logs.  This is in addition to occasional Firmware updates - I keep a log of such things.

AstonSmith said:

Everything went fine. I got an e-mail at about 1am from BT saying they'd stopped the voice service, and then two e-mails from Zen soon after to say the Digital Voice (VOIP) for my number was now live. I moved the phone cable from the socket to the router. The Fritz!Box correctly shows the number in the control panel.

(Since everyone's now talking about FTTP products, I'd like to add that I'm on FTTC but Zen said they'd upgrade me to FTTP for free within the contract minimum term if it was installed on my road, although I doubt that it'll happen anytime ever.)

Thanks for sharing, glad it all went smoothly for you.  As you can see in my post above, I ended up staying with BT.  They offered a deal that was simply too good to refuse.  I just wish they'd lead with this, rather than me actually having to initiate moving to another provider before giving their best price *sigh*

For us here, I touched on it before, but we literally went from a 1.6km length of underground copper to the cabinet in the village - not even the main exchange which is another 2-3 miles away depending how straight the line is - ADSL service, barely giving 2mbps down and 1mbps up, to full Fibre to the house.  A shocking difference as you can imagine.  300 was a massive improvement over 2 of course, but the extra speed became a bit addictive.

Moving to VOIP from copper is... well, I'd not be able to tell the difference.  If I make a VOIP call on my PC, the audio is ridiculously clear.  I might do this through Discord, Steam chat or some other service.  VOIP through the BT digital handsets though... not as clear, lower bit-rate.  Not terrible, just not PC-level quality.  Might be down to the speakers.  High-quality headset / soundbar / separate speakers vs. whatever is in the handset.

Hopefully your FTTC to FTTP will happen soon.  However, if your cabinet is close, you should still get decent speeds I would have thought?