Random Declines - could be dangerous

MissConception2

I have both top recommended travel cards, Halifax Clarity & Lloyds Ultra, and took them both on holiday with me just before Xmas. Both card issuers are part of the Lloyds Banking Group, so presumably, use the same systems. Neither banks needed to be told where I was travelling to, beforehand.
Upon arrival in foreign parts I began using the Lloyds card, without any problems, until it was suddenly declined. I had no messages from Lloyds about the decline, just silence. I switched to the Halifax card and carried on. Sometime later I messaged Lloyds to ask why the card was declined, owing to: 1. no access to mobile signal; 2. very intermittent access to Wi-Fi; and 3. the App messaging service staff were very slow in responding. Consequently, it took 2-3 days to get the block lifted. 
Meanwhile the Halifax card was working well until it too was declined, so I switched back to the Lloyds card and began the long process to get the Halifax card unblocked. This pattern pretty much carried on throughout the (long) holiday.
From my point of view the blocks were totally random, eg cafes, tourist attractions, Ubers, & supermarkets. Most of the blocks were on transactions with low values (£2-£30). 
This came to a crux when I took an uber to a part of an unsafe city (some 5 miles from my hotel), Had dinner and then called an Uber to go back. My Lloyds card was declined. My Clarity card had been blocked a few days earlier and I was in the process of getting it unblocked. So, this was a moment of panic. I was potentially without any means of payment, in and unsafe city, and about 5 miles from my hotel. How to get back safely. Fortunately, my panic was short-lived when I tried to book the Uber with the Clarity card and it was accepted. 
Bear in mind, that thorough multiple declines on both cards I had not received a single text, email or call from the banks. No queries about the transaction, no updates on unblocking, and certainly no advice about what to do to avoid these frequent blocks.
I've since formally complained to Lloyds and they replied they have not breached any rules. When talking to them on the phone the refused to explain why their "system" blocks some transactions and not others of the same type ( eg Uber rides).I doubt going to the Ombudsman would help at all because they do not have the remit to apply common sense to complaints.
So, my main reason for posting this story is as a warning to all travelers that it is wise not to rely on single card (even the MSE top rated cards!) and that even two cards might not be enough.
What do you guys think?
Should credit card issuers be able to block cards when people are in foreign countries, potentially putting the cardholder in danger?
Should there be a minimum value for a transaction to be declined (say £30)?
Should issuers be made to automatically contact their cardholders about blocks by text or call?
Should this website provide some advice on this topic in the section of travel credit cards?
If you've read this far, thanks for your attention. 

nakie999

MissConception2 said:

I have both top recommended travel cards, Halifax Clarity & Lloyds Ultra, and took them both on holiday with me just before Xmas. Both card issuers are part of the Lloyds Banking Group, so presumably, use the same systems. Neither banks needed to be told where I was travelling to, beforehand.
Upon arrival in foreign parts I began using the Lloyds card, without any problems, until it was suddenly declined. I had no messages from Lloyds about the decline, just silence. I switched to the Halifax card and carried on. Sometime later I messaged Lloyds to ask why the card was declined, owing to: 1. no access to mobile signal; 2. very intermittent access to Wi-Fi; and 3. the App messaging service staff were very slow in responding. Consequently, it took 2-3 days to get the block lifted. 
Meanwhile the Halifax card was working well until it too was declined, so I switched back to the Lloyds card and began the long process to get the Halifax card unblocked. This pattern pretty much carried on throughout the (long) holiday.
From my point of view the blocks were totally random, eg cafes, tourist attractions, Ubers, & supermarkets. Most of the blocks were on transactions with low values (£2-£30). 
This came to a crux when I took an uber to a part of an unsafe city (some 5 miles from my hotel), Had dinner and then called an Uber to go back. My Lloyds card was declined. My Clarity card had been blocked a few days earlier and I was in the process of getting it unblocked. So, this was a moment of panic. I was potentially without any means of payment, in and unsafe city, and about 5 miles from my hotel. How to get back safely. Fortunately, my panic was short-lived when I tried to book the Uber with the Clarity card and it was accepted. 
Bear in mind, that thorough multiple declines on both cards I had not received a single text, email or call from the banks. No queries about the transaction, no updates on unblocking, and certainly no advice about what to do to avoid these frequent blocks.
I've since formally complained to Lloyds and they replied they have not breached any rules. When talking to them on the phone the refused to explain why their "system" blocks some transactions and not others of the same type ( eg Uber rides).I doubt going to the Ombudsman would help at all because they do not have the remit to apply common sense to complaints.
So, my main reason for posting this story is as a warning to all travelers that it is wise not to rely on single card (even the MSE top rated cards!) and that even two cards might not be enough.
What do you guys think?
Should credit card issuers be able to block cards when people are in foreign countries, potentially putting the cardholder in danger?
Should there be a minimum value for a transaction to be declined (say £30)?
Should issuers be made to automatically contact their cardholders about blocks by text or call?
Should this website provide some advice on this topic in the section of travel credit cards?
If you've read this far, thanks for your attention. 

This happens because fraud systems react to location changes, merchant patterns, and network quality, not just spending amount. Small transactions can trigger blocks as easily as large ones. Banks should notify instantly, but many still fail at this. The practical takeaway is carry at least two cards from different banking groups and keep some cash. Relying on one issuer, even a good one, is risky when traveling.

eskbanker

MissConception2 said:

I was potentially without any means of payment, in and unsafe city, and about 5 miles from my hotel.

If you were somewhere you considered to be unsafe, it's plausible that your card providers see it the same way and take extra precautions to protect their money when authorisations are requested there?

MissConception2 said:

I have both top recommended travel cards, Halifax Clarity & Lloyds Ultra, and took them both on holiday with me just before Xmas. Both card issuers are part of the Lloyds Banking Group, so presumably, use the same systems.

In future it may be worth having at least one card from a different banking group.

MissConception2 said:

I've since formally complained to Lloyds and they replied they have not breached any rules. When talking to them on the phone the refused to explain why their "system" blocks some transactions and not others of the same type ( eg Uber rides).I doubt going to the Ombudsman would help at all because they do not have the remit to apply common sense to complaints.

There's nothing stopping you from escalating your complaint to FOS but they'll evaluate whether the bank's declining of certain transactions and blocking cards were reasonable in the circumstances, rather than anything about disclosing the detail of their algorithms, etc, as these are obviously confidential.

flaneurs_lobster

You make good points and it's an interesting repost to those people who say that they never need to carry cash, even when overseas, because "everything takes cards".

Since the majority of people carry mobile phones, many with the app of the card issuer installed, I don't think that it is unreasonable that you be at least informed of the block, and hopefully told of the process to get it lifted. 

You are right, there's no real justification for blocking a card over a £30 debit, unless it follows another debit that was made from 1000km away.

Maybe the general advice might be to make sure that at least two of your cards are from different issuers. And maybe that infamous US 100 dollar bill that was once enough to get you out of pretty much any situation anywhere, or at least some cash.

born_again

MissConception2 said:

I have both top recommended travel cards, Halifax Clarity & Lloyds Ultra, and took them both on holiday with me just before Xmas. Both card issuers are part of the Lloyds Banking Group, so presumably, use the same systems. Neither banks needed to be told where I was travelling to, beforehand.
Upon arrival in foreign parts I began using the Lloyds card, without any problems, until it was suddenly declined. I had no messages from Lloyds about the decline, just silence. I switched to the Halifax card and carried on. Sometime later I messaged Lloyds to ask why the card was declined, owing to: 1. no access to mobile signal; 2. very intermittent access to Wi-Fi; and 3. the App messaging service staff were very slow in responding. Consequently, it took 2-3 days to get the block lifted. 
Meanwhile the Halifax card was working well until it too was declined, so I switched back to the Lloyds card and began the long process to get the Halifax card unblocked. This pattern pretty much carried on throughout the (long) holiday.
From my point of view the blocks were totally random, eg cafes, tourist attractions, Ubers, & supermarkets. Most of the blocks were on transactions with low values (£2-£30). 
This came to a crux when I took an uber to a part of an unsafe city (some 5 miles from my hotel), Had dinner and then called an Uber to go back. My Lloyds card was declined. My Clarity card had been blocked a few days earlier and I was in the process of getting it unblocked. So, this was a moment of panic. I was potentially without any means of payment, in and unsafe city, and about 5 miles from my hotel. How to get back safely. Fortunately, my panic was short-lived when I tried to book the Uber with the Clarity card and it was accepted. 
Bear in mind, that thorough multiple declines on both cards I had not received a single text, email or call from the banks. No queries about the transaction, no updates on unblocking, and certainly no advice about what to do to avoid these frequent blocks.
I've since formally complained to Lloyds and they replied they have not breached any rules. When talking to them on the phone the refused to explain why their "system" blocks some transactions and not others of the same type ( eg Uber rides).I doubt going to the Ombudsman would help at all because they do not have the remit to apply common sense to complaints.
So, my main reason for posting this story is as a warning to all travelers that it is wise not to rely on single card (even the MSE top rated cards!) and that even two cards might not be enough.
What do you guys think?
Should credit card issuers be able to block cards when people are in foreign countries, potentially putting the cardholder in danger?
Should there be a minimum value for a transaction to be declined (say £30)?
Should issuers be made to automatically contact their cardholders about blocks by text or call?
Should this website provide some advice on this topic in the section of travel credit cards?
If you've read this far, thanks for your attention. 

Banks have a legal requirement for security systems & have a limited amount of declines on genuine transactions before they get fined for this.

Min spend on declines would be fraudsters best outcome. Once they know the limit off they go. So NO min limit many fraud cases starts with a low amount.

They do contact you, but that is reliant on your phone being able to take calls/messages. So no airplane mode.

MSE has no knowledge of how each banks security system operates. Even if they did security systems are updated in real time depending on fraud seen. Which can be different between debit & credit cards from same provider.

So it is a personal responsibility to make sure while out of country to make sure that your phone is able to connect & receive call/messages to your known number.

If in doubt contact your provider & ask them for best advice on where you are going. 

Nasqueron

I get the odd check in France when travelling for work, usually only pre-booking uber - that's with Lloyds too - but it opens in the app to sign off immediately so maybe depends on your connection

MissConception2

Nasqueron said:

I get the odd check in France when travelling for work, usually only pre-booking uber - that's with Lloyds too - but it opens in the app to sign off immediately so maybe depends on your connection

Did you have a mobile connection at the time? I didn't have one but would have had Wi-Fi.
I've never seen that behaviour in the app but the Lloyds card is very new and I can't remember the last time (before this holiday) that my Clarity card was declined.

MissConception2

born_again said:

1. So it is a personal responsibility to make sure while out of country to make sure that your phone is able to connect & receive call/messages to your known number.

2. If in doubt contact your provider & ask them for best advice on where you are going. 

1. This is not always possible. For example, for some of the time I was away I had a roaming add-on from my mobile provider but it was next to useless because there was often no signal. Even when there was a signal (even a 4g signal) it was next to impossible to get a usable data service.

Had the banks tried to contact me about the declines, I would have thought that as soon as I was able to get a Wi-Fi connection I would get all the messages downloaded and notifications of missed calls.

What I don't know (I didn't even think to try it) is whether it is possible to make a mobile phone call when connected to Wi-Fi (only). I do have Wi-Fi calling enabled but only (knowingly) use it at home.


2. They seems to actively discourage this.

Nebulous2

I'm not sure if I go to anywhere you would consider as unsafe. I trim the number of cards I carry when abroad, leaving some at home, but would usually have at least 4 (2 credit, 2 debit)  that don't have foreign exchange fees, and another 2-3 that do, but could be used in an emergency. 

Something I do early in a holiday, if I can find a fee-free ATM, is draw out cash. Even in France / Spain, I'll get 100 or 200 euros, depending how long I'm away for.

Having said that - last year I made a purchase of over 2000 euros in a shop, on a credit card, and didn't even have to authorise it. It just went through. So I've had very few problems, either at home or abroad. 

That's my approach, very much a belt and braces one. 

Nasqueron

MissConception2 said:

Nasqueron said:

I get the odd check in France when travelling for work, usually only pre-booking uber - that's with Lloyds too - but it opens in the app to sign off immediately so maybe depends on your connection

Did you have a mobile connection at the time? I didn't have one but would have had Wi-Fi.
I've never seen that behaviour in the app but the Lloyds card is very new and I can't remember the last time (before this holiday) that my Clarity card was declined.

Yes I have 5G fine in France as I don't connect to wifi if I can avoid it when out and about if I can use my roaming

Rich1976

I’ve had credit card payments declined by both Halifax and First Direct recently . First Direct sent me a notification just before Christmas to say a payment to my home insurance provider was declined. The policy had been set up on auto renewal and as I was happy with the renewal quote I let the payment come out automatically. I had to confirm by replying to the text that it was me but they don’t still process the payment, I had to ring the home insurer and manually pay over the phone.

Halifax declined the card when I was trying to pay for parking but the FD card accepted it.

i do not understand how these algorithms work as never had an issue with declined transactions until these two within a week of each other .

Never had a problem abroad though which is when I would have expected fraud detection to be more robust .