Heating takes ages to heat up - small house

QrizB

rosamy52 said:

QrizB said:

Vitor said:

Suggest OP contact the letting agent now, clearly and calmly, describing the symptoms: very slow warm-up, inability to reach 18°C, boiler flow set at 65°C ...

None of that is unreasonable.

Raising the temperature by 1.5C an hour is normal. 65C flow temp is normal. "Inability to reach 18C" is simply because the OP won't run the heating for more than four hours.

There's a big difference between won't and can't even if the outcome is the same. 

I agree there is a big difference between "won't" and "can't". You've not yet mentioned anything that prevents you from running your heating for longer - you've not said that the boiler trips out, for example - so your case looks a lot more like a "won't".

rosamy52 said:

December's bill for gas was about £60 which I realise may seem perfectly normal for some but it's high for me.

£60 is on the low side.

The "low" gas TDCV for a dual-fuel home (the amount used by the lowest 25% of homes) is 8000kWh of gas. The standing charge is 34p/day (£10 a month, £124 a year) and at 6.29p/kWh those 8000kwh will cost £503.

Most people will use almost all that gas in the four coldest months (Dec to Mar) so you might expect to be paying £90-£100 a month right now.

silvercar

I wonder if keeping your heating on for longer at a lower temperature would actually give you more heat per pound spent than what you are doing? if you are letting the fabric of the building cool down too much, then the first hour or two of heating is only restoring what heat there was before you turned it off. 

It may makes sense to experiment. Compare turning the boiler down but keeping the heating on for longer with your current boiler temperature but heating for only 4 hours. It may cost you about the same, but keep the house warmer. It may even pay to treat yourself to a longer heating spell one day to warm the house up and see if it stays that way for longer.

I also live in an older property and have found that instead of having the heating on morning and evening only, a one hour boost mid afternoon makes the house so much warmer in the evening. 

rosamy52

QrizB said:

rosamy52 said:

QrizB said:

Vitor said:

Suggest OP contact the letting agent now, clearly and calmly, describing the symptoms: very slow warm-up, inability to reach 18°C, boiler flow set at 65°C ...

None of that is unreasonable.

Raising the temperature by 1.5C an hour is normal. 65C flow temp is normal. "Inability to reach 18C" is simply because the OP won't run the heating for more than four hours.

There's a big difference between won't and can't even if the outcome is the same. 

I agree there is a big difference between "won't" and "can't". You've not yet mentioned anything that prevents you from running your heating for longer - you've not said that the boiler trips out, for example - so your case looks a lot more like a "won't".

rosamy52 said:

December's bill for gas was about £60 which I realise may seem perfectly normal for some but it's high for me.

£60 is on the low side.

The "low" gas TDCV for a dual-fuel home (the amount used by the lowest 25% of homes) is 8000kWh of gas. The standing charge is 34p/day (£10 a month, £124 a year) and at 6.29p/kWh those 8000kwh will cost £503.

Most people will use almost all that gas in the four coldest months (Dec to Mar) so you might expect to be paying £90-£100 a month right now.

I was quite clear that I can't afford to have the heating on much, £60 may be on the low side for you but it isn't for me. It is a case of can't not won't. 

rosamy52

silvercar said:

I wonder if keeping your heating on for longer at a lower temperature would actually give you more heat per pound spent than what you are doing? if you are letting the fabric of the building cool down too much, then the first hour or two of heating is only restoring what heat there was before you turned it off. 

It may makes sense to experiment. Compare turning the boiler down but keeping the heating on for longer with your current boiler temperature but heating for only 4 hours. It may cost you about the same, but keep the house warmer. It may even pay to treat yourself to a longer heating spell one day to warm the house up and see if it stays that way for longer.

I also live in an older property and have found that instead of having the heating on morning and evening only, a one hour boost mid afternoon makes the house so much warmer in the evening. 

Thanks, yes I think experimenting like that is definitely worth a try. It would be super helpful if my smart meter actually worked properly for the gas meter but annoyingly it doesn't and Octopus have sent people out twice last year. Maybe I should give it another go but apparently it's a fairly normal thing for a lot of smart meters. 

Albermarle

As another has said, what do you mean by the radiators are ok? It should be hard to keep you hands on at 65c. 
If the boiler flow temperature is 65, it is unlikely the radiators themselves are 65.
My boiler flow temp is 63 and I can hold my hands on a fully on radiator, for 20 seconds or so. Maybe longer if I was a bit braver.
 Running the heating for longer and keeping room to at least 16c is most likely your answer.  
Agreed. The OP said.

December's bill for gas was about £60 which I realise may seem perfectly normal for some but it's high for me.

According to OFGEM figures, typical usage for an older two bed home with one person in it is around 9000 KWH a year.
I used 16% of my annual gas consumption in December ( same the previous year) . 16% of 9000 = 1440 @ 6p a KWH = £86.
So this very approx calculation would indicate the OP is not having the heating on as much as is typical.

If they had the heating on at least 6 hours a day and turned off/down the radiators in rooms not being used, that would probably help a lot.

Albermarle

rosamy52 said:

Vitor said:

Suggest OP contact the letting agent now, clearly and calmly, describing the symptoms: very slow warm-up, inability to reach 18°C, boiler flow set at 65°C, and no TRVs on rads. Ask for the system to be checked and balanced, and for the boiler output and radiator performance to be assessed. This is not an unreasonable request and is not “complaining”; it is routine maintenance.

Thank you, I may well do that. I just wanted to check I wasn't missing anything obvious but it sounds like I'm not apart from possibly being able to turn off the radiators which don't need using.

Even with the valves that are not TRVs, if you turn then right off and then back a smidgen, they should still get a little bit warm ( rather than hot) which might be preferable to the room getting absolutely stone cold. Needs a bit of trial and error. 

WIAWSNB

rosamy52 said:

WIAWSNB said:

Hi Rosamy.
Good info : 😺 
You say the radiators 'seem fine'? I'm guessing by this that you mean they heat up as expected? Could you confirm, please? 
The boiler rad temp is set to 65oC. This is shown on the boiler? That's a fair temp - ie, in most circumstances it is high enough to get the rads similarly hot, in which case they should heat their rooms as designed. It's also not 'too' hot to make the boiler inefficient. 
60/65oC is 'ouch' hot - Ie, you cannot leave your hand on the rad for more than a second or so. Is this the case?
If it is, then it's clearly working as it should be, and your house is just difficult to heat.
That isn't helped by you allowing it to become cold at other times - that will always give the rads a bigger task to heat the place up. 
So, in general, it would appear that your system is working ok, but it just needs more - higher - heat and for longer. 
But you say you cannot afford this. How much are you paying pm at the moment?
Can you clarify what you mean by 'there are no valves apart from on one upstairs'? Could you take a pic, please? You can surely shut off rads when you don't need them? 
What does the house's EPC say about energy efficiency?

I've just checked the EPC and it's just expired just before Christmas. So it is E rated and was done just over ten years ago before the house was renovated as it mentions single glazing etc so it's well out of date and not much use. I should probably ask for a new one to be done. 

Re radiators yes they are hot to the touch and at the top, there don't appear to be any cold patches etc. I genuinely didn't know that you could turn off radiators which don't have the numbered valves, but after reading what you've said I did a bit of brief reading and found this. December's bill for gas was about £60 which I realise may seem perfectly normal for some but it's high for me. It sounds like the house may just be difficult to heat? 

I asked for pics of your actual rad valves - can you provide these?
It appears that your energy consumption is not excessive, but do bear in mind that it'll be 'high' at this time, and no CH will be used for most of the year.
Ok, assuming that there's nothing 'wrong' - ie, your EPC is E, so 'acceptable', your CH is working fine - Ie the rads are hot, and there is no other mystery here other than you not wanting the heating on enough, then the answer will be;
1) Turn off, or near-as, all rads in rooms you do not use. In these rooms, crack the windows to 'vent' setting, shut the door, and leave them - they'll be fine. 
2) If you are losing heat to other rooms by keeping a door open for a bludy cat, then close it, and wait for a miaow. 
3) In bedrooms, keep yourself warm by using a thick duvet, prewarmed by a leccy, and even an overnighter if really needed. Don't 'heat' a bedroom unless you can actually afford to. 
4) Warm your living space properly. That means a min of 18oC, which is fine if you wear appropriate clothing. But, 19 or more is better.
5) Use heated over-blankets to snuggle under - they are great.

ic

65oC is probably on the low side for this current cold snap.  Older systems (you haven't said how old the rads are, but a lack of TRVs suggests the install is old) were designed for 80 degree flow.  Try upping the temp - it might just be the cold weather is sucking the temp out of the house faster than you're putting it in.  As soon as we hit the thaw, turn it back down on the boiler.

Also position the thermostat in the coldest room (traditionally the hallway) and leave it there - it should be away from the radiator, but not in a particularly cold position such as a window ledge.  Moving it around means it might be turning off too early and some rooms just never do get to warm up - resulting in other rooms having to heat the rest through convection - slowly.

Check around the house - are there any draughts you can easily remedy with some old towels or duvets?  Front and back doors, feel around the skirting boards, especially on the sides of the house that receive the wind.  

QrizB

ic said:

Try upping the temp

Turning up the flow temperature will increase the output of the radiators, meaning the boiler burns gas fadter. It'll also make the boiler less efficient, meaning it burns more gas.

As the problem is that the OP isn't prepared to spend more than £2 a day on gas, increasing the flow temperature is likely to make the problem worse not better.

silvercar

Is your restriction to £60 a month for 12 months or the winter months. If you are averaging £60 a month over the year, you could spend £100 on the 4 coldest months and then restrict your self to £40 a month on the other months.  Or even £120 over 3 months and £40 for 9 months.