Another Britannia Parking Charge

RobinHill

Received a Britannia Parking Charge. See amended URL's below showing redacted NtK.

hxxps://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/g0hsrpfkx26awu0r27yrg/BP_1_redacted.jpg?rlkey=u6kgkj5jmte1fgdj8nyecznfl&st=g54ujo3e&dl=0

hxxps://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1phik4zhw2rz47sd47y58/BP_2_redacted.jpg?rlkey=i3h0p4x09jnok5yf0shdtjmas&st=7b7foqq0&dl=0

Having gone through the stickies to try and ensure up-to-date I was still struggling to confirm compliance or not. See link showing examples of both compliant and non complaint NtK's ... https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80389144/#Comment_80389144  

In particular Coupon-mad's post 07/11/2023 details such for Britannia and the NtK that we have received appears to be a later version of the same paragraph wording as shown in the "A POFA one includes this extra paragraph" image.

Two of the parties involved are disabled and blue badge holders, and in addition the vehicle is disabled taxation class.

The vehicle was there for a matter of 16 minutes and then left. One aspect I found in the sticky notes, and there is no mention of such on the NtK if that is a requirement, is ... "If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner."

We have contacted the proprietor and they were unhelpful and dismissive.

Advice appreciated. Thank you.

Gr1pr

The NTK PCN letter was issued due to the driver allegedly not registering at reception  ( or similar. )

Was the driver disabled. ?  Or able bodied. ?

Which location. ?

What do the signs say. ?  ( pictures would be ideal. )

The Joint Code of Practice defines grace periods, but 16 minutes or longer would be extremely unusual,  possibly 5 or 10 minutes to comply or depart , so Download it and study it 

The fact that its  Motability vehicle with one or more blue badge holders is irrelevant on private property 

But there may be a case under the Equality Act  2010. ?  Reasonable adjustment,  depending why the driver was there  ( dropping off or picking up. Maybe . ?  )

Its only worth appealing if there are good grounds for an appeal,  not a scattergun plea 

RobinHill

Hi Gr1pr,

Thanks for the reply.

It was at a public house, wasn't sure about disclosing the location as this could help identify the vehicle. I've no idea of the current signage as I wasn't driving. Had a look at street view and it is dated 2024 which I understand is before the ANPR parking system was introduced. On there it just seemed to be the "patrons only" type sign.

It is a private car, not a Motability vehicle, however as per it's usage it is registered as disabled taxation class. As you also raise; is 16 minutes sufficient given the reasonable adjustment afforded under the Equalities Act?

I am struggling to understand how but from what Coupon_mad posted Britannia's NtK's are not POFA compliant? I would appreciate assistance on that.

Coupon-mad

It's not 'maybe': disabled people are absolutely entitled to longer time allowances (if needed), under the Equality Act.

Doesn't really matter what the CoP says.

Appeal with a copy of the Blue Badge(s) and say that two of the car's occupants are disabled and blue badge holders, and are entitled to take sufficient extended minutes to park, read the t&cs (which were not next to the disabled bays) and then return to the car, taking time to safely secure the passenger and any walking aid, then leave. No contract was agreed let alone breached in a few minutes.

RobinHill

Cheers Coupon-mad.

Previously you wrote ...

"But my NTK thread tells you, in pictures.

It is literally a case of playing 'spot the difference' with a couple of sentences about '28 days'. I never understand the difficulty given the images are there to compare a NtK to. There is nothing to work out.

Which version does it match...job done"

But all three NtK's refer to "28 days", the non POFA one, the POFA one, and ours.

Having checked the pictures you referred to, our NtK looks like a later version of the one that you describe as POFA compliant. Still a bit confused as to whether it is compliant or not.

Could you explain more about this bit from the sticky notes ... "If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner". There was no reference to any grace period.

Save for wanting to understand more about the above points, cut me short if the topics aren't required in this case given the disabled aspects of the appeal.

Thank you.

Coupon-mad

An invoice like this has to give a timeline, so of course they all mention 28 days.

I was trying to make it easy...looks like I failed! I narrowed it down to the '28 days' sentences to try to focus people on exactly which bit is differently worded.

I hoped there was no need to explain further, when you know to simply compare the wording to my pictures. Spot the difference. Even people completely new to this can surely see at a glance which one is claiming the keeper 'you' will become liable after 28 days,  and which version isn't saying that.

Grace periods don't have to be stated anywhere ... and you aren't using the template appeal anyway. My earlier reply explained what to put in your case.

RobinHill

Brtiannia Parking have rejected the appeal; £30 with in 2 weeks or POPLA. Advice appreciated.

Coupon-mad

You haven't shown us the dates on that NTK but you seem sure that your NTK complies with 9(2)f of Schedule 4 of the POFA. I agree the wording is POFA compliant so if it was also served in time, POPLA may be better swerved because they ignore the Equality Act. Most people lose at POPLA.

However you could give it a whirl. How to win at POPLA is covered in post 3 of the NEWBIES thread.

If you lose you ignore it of course, as the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread tells you.

Castle

The second paragraph under the POFA section refers to 28 days from the date given; the 28 days starts from the day after the date given.

Coupon-mad

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81870846#Comment_81870846

Very good spot!

Now that IS worth running with at POPLA, as long as it is spelt out in words of one syllable because the Assessors are clueless about POFA deadlines.

RobinHill

Coupon-mad & Castle: Thank you for the replies.

The 28 days from the day after is detailed on the front page … "after 28 days of the date given (which is presumed to be the 2nd working day after the date issued)". This part seems to be conveying the conditions of required to pursue the keeper in the absence of payment or identification of the driver.

As Castle picked up the Appeals section on the rear refers to "28 days from the date". However best I can understand this doesn't seem to be under the same stipulation, since "dispute arrangements" detailed under section (g) doesn't involve any timing constraint …

(g) inform the keeper of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;

Opinion and advice appreciated.