Octopus Energy lost our smart meter data for 17 months – now wants to bill on estimates

Scot_39

Cadwallon said:

Thank you, everyone, for your comments. As explained, we are where we are. Our bills and Octopus's ongoing estimates of our annual usage were in line with our expectations, so they caused us no alarm. Little did we realise Octopus had switched from using live data to using estimated data. Our problem is to find a way of persuading Octopus not to destroy the live data, known to be stored in our smart meter, that they can use to check our bills against the tariff we are on (or cross-check the equivalent data exported from our system) -- taking into account the credit we have earned from solar generation. We feel it would be unfair for Octopus to generate new bills based on headline numbers and an unfavourable tariff that does not take into account our earnings from solar generation, which should more or less balance our usage. We only have a short time to persuade Octopus to change course, and we will look elsewhere for the solution we urgently need.

How do you know the data is in the meter.

Given you have had @Qyburn post stating not all his missing data was recoverable by Octopus.

And given the export you now seem worried about was only specified by uk govt to be held for 3m not 13m ?

Did you once put on variable tariff submit register readings - to allow them to bill that tariff accurately - import and export ?

Are those registers actually working or are yhey too corrupted / broken by meter fault - are they with say 10% to allow for solar system inaccuracy over tge lastv18m or so.

Were Octopus recording the daily total import / export registers and 1/2 hourly segments until failure.  Can you read them now.  They might be willing to at least rebill at flat rate import export rates  on the difference in tbe total import export registers over last 18m..

But I really dont see them reverting to your flux or whatever type deal.  As Octopus have complied with their end of the contract, in the event of meter failure.  You have - unless registered on psr as unable to read meters - likely have not.

As once on variable tariff - as per the contract - and as per Ofgem license conditions - the only reasonable effort they have to make is to get 1 set of readings every 12m.  Which you agreed to in contract that you would supply every 90 days.

That's just 1 import reading per year, possibly not even the 1 export reading, and not the 96 per day  required for your tariffs.

brianposter

matt_drummer said:

brianposter said:

The OP should provide their own estimate to Octopus before going to the Ombudsman and before the meter is removed. Octopus might accept it.

Do you fully understand their setup?

They are buying and selling electricity.

They want to be paid for electricity they have no usable proof that they actually exported.

They have no history as the meter stopped sending data shortly after installation of the solar panels and storage batteries.

This isn't just about estimating consumption.

They also want to be billed at a rate that is not the SVR even though the terms of their tariff say they would be if half hourly data was not received.

They knew something had gone wrong when it first happened but chose to ignore it as the money was working out acceptably to them.

Only when the financial situation changed to something they didn't like have they started showing any interest in the problem.

They expect their supplier to be interested when they're not.

Their supplier has indicated an issue as the OP admits but they chose to ignore it.

So what ? There appears to be nobody in a better position than the OP to estimate the correct bills for the actual consumption and generation.

A court would probably accept those estimates if reasonably supported, and, unless I have misunderstood, the OP already has estimates from Octopus to support his case.

Reed_Richards

I'll repeat myself, the Octopus In-Home device should be able to give you a good idea of whether the missing data is on the meter or not.  If it can report old data then some data is on the meter and I think it likely that all the stored data is there.  If it cannot, but can still tell you your meter reading then the stored data may have been lost.  If it can tell you nothing then that could mean that the LAN HAN connection has failed.  The Comms Hub communicates with the Smart Meter via the LAN HAN (even though it is physically attached) so if the LAN HAN fails then no data will be reported and you won't be able to get the stored data off the meter.

Correction:  The HAN, Home Area Network, is a dedicated short range network for communication with your comms hub to/from the meters in your house and your IHD.  So although it is a Local Area Network, it's got nothing to do with the one used to communicate with your router.  Thanks to @MWT.  

Reed_Richards

Following the same train of thought, the Hildebrand Glow is a sophisticated in-home device that you can buy.  It communicates with your Smart Meter over the LAN HAN but I don't know if it is capable of reading the stored data directly.  It might be worth an enquiry to the manufacturer.  I'm not sure if they can set it up without a working WAN connection, however.

MWT

Reed_Richards said:

The Comms Hub communicates with the Smart Meter via the LAN (even though it is physically attached) so if the LAN fails then no data will be reported and you won't be able to get the stored data off the meter.

Small but possibly necessary correction, it is the Zigbee HAN formed by the Comms Hub that provides the link between the meters and any CAD device like the Octopus Mini, not the customers LAN.

Also I cannot recall if the Mini actually recovers previous data when first connected or merely begins forwarding current data, as it does not store anything locally, it is just a conduit to Octopus for current live data.

Reed_Richards

I'm not with Octopus so I don't know the details of their IHDs but when my Smart Meter stopped communicating via the WAN, I could still look on my IHD and see hourly data for the previous day, daily data for the previous week, weekly data for the previous month and monthly data for the previous year (13 months).  So for a while I was able to record for myself all the data that my supplier would need to bill me on my TOU tariff.  I suspect all the half hourly data was on the meter but the IHD wasn't set-up to allow me to look back fully.  

jem16

MWT said:

Reed_Richards said:

The Comms Hub communicates with the Smart Meter via the LAN (even though it is physically attached) so if the LAN fails then no data will be reported and you won't be able to get the stored data off the meter.

Small but possibly necessary correction, it is the Zigbee HAN formed by the Comms Hub that provides the link between the meters and any CAD device like the Octopus Mini, not the customers LAN.

Also I cannot recall if the Mini actually recovers previous data when first connected or merely begins forwarding current data, as it does not store anything locally, it is just a conduit to Octopus for current live data.

I just set up the Mini last Friday. Looking at the graphs for each day it goes right back to when the meters were installed on the 5th December. 

Qyburn

The Mini is not super consistent in behaviour if things aren'tquite right.

In normal operation it reads current and h/h data from the meter, over the Zigbee HAN, passes this to Octopus (via the Internet) to form a sort of "draft" daily usage record for import, but not export. This is then overwritten by real data once that's collected and validated. I've never checked to see if there's any difference between the draft from the Mini and official data.

For export it shows a live figure, eg -1500W, but doesn't show 5 minute, 30m or daily history. Periods where you're exporting just show as zero.

The Mini "draft" daily data isn't used in the monthly display. If I look early enough tomorrow morning I'll see Mini derived daily data for 29th Dec, but the monthly display will only go up to the 28th.

You can distinguish Mini vs real data on the daily display, as the latter incldes the standing charge, the former doesn't.

As you see the Mini relies on the HAN so won't work if the comms hub is dead. When our CH was flakey the Mini reported odd patterns, sometimes missing h/h slots followed by one huge one as if the missing data had been rolled up.

Qyburn

jem16 said:

I just set up the Mini last Friday. Looking at the graphs for each day it goes right back to when the meters were installed on the 5th December. 

Is that data you couldn't see in your account, prior to installing the Mini?

jem16

Qyburn said:

jem16 said:

I just set up the Mini last Friday. Looking at the graphs for each day it goes right back to when the meters were installed on the 5th December. 

Is that data you couldn't see in your account, prior to installing the Mini?

I thought it did but now I’m beginning to doubt myself after reading your last post. Thinking about it more it may always have been there.