Section 75 dispute

monaymadlol

Evening 
My partner bought a used car a few momths ago. Various issues arose and an independent garage declared engine failure and effectively needed engine rebuild. 
Contacted garage who were unhelpful,  so opened section 75 with m&s cc (mastercard), who checked the garage report and credited the amount back.
Since then, garage contacted to collect vehicle but no response. 
Its been couple of weeks into the 60day dispute period. 
She's itching to get a replacement. 
We wondered why nothing from the garage- does the cc company recoup the funds from the garage or are they liable for the full amount? I know if id had several thousands taken from my bank account I would be itching to resolve. Contacted bank and no response from garage.
We assume the bank have footed the whole amount and the job for the garage is too big or expensive to take on hence no response.
And assume that after the 60 days, she is legally allowed to retain the car and credit as that is what the bank have told us?
She's thinking of using the refund to buy a replacement,  assuming the garage don't counter dispute on day 59.
Merry xmas!

Isthisforreal99

Section 75 means the credit card company have footed the bill but if 'they' are talking about a 60 day time limit (who mentioned this) are you 100% sure it has not been treated as a chargeback rather than S75. The retailer can challenge a chargeback as the transaction is effectively reversed and the money taken back by the credit card company. If it were a S75 then credit card company pays you themselves with the car effectively belonging to them.

If it was a chargeback then the dealer still has other options to pursue the cost.

monaymadlol

Isthisforreal99 said:

Section 75 means the credit card company have footed the bill but if 'they' are talking about a 60 day time limit (who mentioned this) are you 100% sure it has not been treated as a chargeback rather than S75. The retailer can challenge a chargeback as the transaction is effectively reversed and the money taken back by the credit card company. If it were a S75 then credit card company pays you themselves with the car effectively belonging to them.

If it was a chargeback then the dealer still has other options to pursue the cost.

We filled in the section 75 m&s form, and paid on cc so it's not a charge back. The 60 day thing is their policy for the retailer to challenge. As far as we understand,  that timeliness can vary between banks. She asked the m&s dispute team, maybe they gave an incorrect answer,  but basically said the car would be ours (certainly nothing about them retaining it). The dealer would have orher options even if s75 dispute (checking lots of info online) same as charge back 

eskbanker

monaymadlol said:

Isthisforreal99 said:

Section 75 means the credit card company have footed the bill but if 'they' are talking about a 60 day time limit (who mentioned this) are you 100% sure it has not been treated as a chargeback rather than S75. The retailer can challenge a chargeback as the transaction is effectively reversed and the money taken back by the credit card company. If it were a S75 then credit card company pays you themselves with the car effectively belonging to them.

If it was a chargeback then the dealer still has other options to pursue the cost.

We filled in the section 75 m&s form, and paid on cc so it's not a charge back. The 60 day thing is their policy for the retailer to challenge. As far as we understand,  that timeliness can vary between banks. She asked the m&s dispute team, maybe they gave an incorrect answer,  but basically said the car would be ours (certainly nothing about them retaining it). The dealer would have orher options even if s75 dispute (checking lots of info online) same as charge back 

Under a s75 claim, the cardholder is holding the card company liable for the breach of contract, which doesn't involve any sort of challenge being available to the retailer, unlike chargeback, where the card company is basically recovering the funds from the retailer on your behalf.  Therefore, talk of retailer challenge strongly implies that the process is being handled as chargeback, which is to the card company's benefit but not the customer's.

Either way, reimbursement is in lieu of you retaining the car, so make sure that the matter of disposal is properly addressed....

monaymadlol

eskbanker said:

monaymadlol said:

Isthisforreal99 said:

Section 75 means the credit card company have footed the bill but if 'they' are talking about a 60 day time limit (who mentioned this) are you 100% sure it has not been treated as a chargeback rather than S75. The retailer can challenge a chargeback as the transaction is effectively reversed and the money taken back by the credit card company. If it were a S75 then credit card company pays you themselves with the car effectively belonging to them.

If it was a chargeback then the dealer still has other options to pursue the cost.

We filled in the section 75 m&s form, and paid on cc so it's not a charge back. The 60 day thing is their policy for the retailer to challenge. As far as we understand,  that timeliness can vary between banks. She asked the m&s dispute team, maybe they gave an incorrect answer,  but basically said the car would be ours (certainly nothing about them retaining it). The dealer would have orher options even if s75 dispute (checking lots of info online) same as charge back 

Under a s75 claim, the cardholder is holding the card company liable for the breach of contract, which doesn't involve any sort of challenge being available to the retailer, unlike chargeback, where the card company is basically recovering the funds from the retailer on your behalf.  Therefore, talk of retailer challenge strongly implies that the process is being handled as chargeback, which is to the card company's benefit but not the customer's.

Either way, reimbursement is in lieu of you retaining the car, so make sure that the matter of disposal is properly addressed....

Interesting. 

This is the form we filled out, which references both section 75 and charge back.
https://bank.marksandspencer.com/credit-card/card-support/dispute-transaction/

It seems to imply that based on the info we give,  there may be a case for s75?

We will contact them to see if this is indeed a charge back or section 75.

How will it otherwise affect us going forward?

Ty

monaymadlol

And if it is a charge back any option to escalating to s75, or any advantage to doing so?

monaymadlol

And if chargeback did occur, why has the retailer not countered this with the bank or responded to us...in 2wks?

born_again

monaymadlol said:

Evening 
My partner bought a used car a few momths ago. Various issues arose and an independent garage declared engine failure and effectively needed engine rebuild. 
Contacted garage who were unhelpful,  so opened section 75 with m&s cc (mastercard), who checked the garage report and credited the amount back.
Since then, garage contacted to collect vehicle but no response. 
Its been couple of weeks into the 60day dispute period. 
She's itching to get a replacement. 
We wondered why nothing from the garage- does the cc company recoup the funds from the garage or are they liable for the full amount? I know if id had several thousands taken from my bank account I would be itching to resolve. Contacted bank and no response from garage.
We assume the bank have footed the whole amount and the job for the garage is too big or expensive to take on hence no response.
And assume that after the 60 days, she is legally allowed to retain the car and credit as that is what the bank have told us?
She's thinking of using the refund to buy a replacement,  assuming the garage don't counter dispute on day 59.
Merry xmas!

If M&S are talking timescales it's a chargeback. S75 is never quick & you would be signing a full & final settlement.

Retailer can take you to court to reclaim the funds if they felt that way if they do not contest the chargeback.

monaymadlol

I will check with them next week.

From what we understand,  if it is a chargeback,  the dealer has 45 days to clawback under Mastercard,  not sure why m&s mentioned 60?

And if they did decide to clawback (they wouldn't just take her to court as first step), we could escalate to section 75 or financial ombudsman. 

Either way, burden of proof on them to prove the vehicle wasn't faulty on sale, which is quite impossible

born_again

Banks mention a longer timeframe, to give staff chance to check systems & see if other party has responded & give time to take the required action.

monaymadlol

Thats interesting,  thanks