Received a SJPN today out of nowhere and unsure of how to proceed.

Okell

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81898115#Comment_81898115

"… then they ain't too bright then are they."

They aren't. That's why you need to keep it simple.

Couple of points:

First, if there was no "Mitigation" section then you probably did do your best with the speeding offence to say as you did. ie "I am willing to plead guilty to this offence if, and only if, the charge for the second offence of failing to provide information is dropped."

[Edit: But see my postscript edit at the end of this post. I'm not actually sure that was an acceptable plea to the speeding offence]

But I would have left it at that and not added "I outline the reason for this in my reply to the second offence etc…"

Second, looking at your two earlier posts on 19 Feb at 9:45pm and 20 Feb at 6:41pm, you basically seem to have failed to plead either Guilty or Not Guilty to the failure to ID the driver - you simply said you didn't get the correspondence.

When you make a plea in criminal proceedings, your plea has to be unequivocal. By not explicitly pleading Not Guilty to the second offence you have made your plea equivocal because it's not clear what you mean,

I suspect that's why the court hasn;t accepted it and wants you to appear to explain what you do mean

[Edit: In fact looking at those two replies again, you didn't clearly plead Not Guilty even to the speeding offence! Instead you waffled that you'd be willing to plead guilty if etc etc. You didn't actually make an unequivocal plea to either charge]

Okell

@PirateAndy - just to clarify my earlier post from 9:39pm this evening, it doesn't look as if you entered a clear unequivocal plea to either charge.

I think you should have:

1 Speeding charge - "Not Guity" (But I would be willing to change my plea to guilty if and only if the fail to identify charge is dropped)

2 Fail to identify charge - "Not Guilty"

That's it

TooManyPoints

So if I "confused" court staff… then they ain't too bright then are they.

As I explained, they have not been legally trained and most of them do not understand some of the nuances involved in the criminal legal processes. Their job is administrative, not judicial.

That’s why I recommended that you kept your response as brief as possible. I also explained why you should – so as to avoid the very problem you have now encountered.

It makes no odds anyway. What’s done is done and all you need to do is to make sure your pleas are understood when you attend court.

PirateAndy

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81898188#Comment_81898188

The online plea portal had a ticky box. Click guilty or not guilty to each charge. It was unequivocal. I clicked the not guilty boxes to both charges.

Then the next page asked for reasons for the not guilty pleas. I gave them.

So I don't know how much more bloody unequivocal you'd like me to have been. Did I need to provide a psychic signal of my intent as well? Perhaps sent the pleas in Semaphore? Perhaps you would've liked them in Morse-!!!!!!-code?

PirateAndy

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81898255#Comment_81898255

I did though. I could not have been less feckin' detailed, unless I wrote sweet !!!!!! all down. Is there something about my writing that just doesn't seem to be getting through to anyone here?

I DID WHAT WAS !!!!!! WELL ADVISED.

I WAS CLEAR.

I WAS SUCCINCT.

I SAID NOT GUILTY TO BOTH AND THEN I WAS WILLING TO PLEAD GUILTY TO SPEEDING IF THE FTP WAS DROPPED BECAUSE I HAD NOT RECEIVED THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS IN THE POST.

WHAT THE !!!!!! DOESN'T COMPUTE HERE!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!!?!?!

TooManyPoints

Then the next page asked for reasons for the not guilty pleas. I gave them.

And they form part of your plea. It's a bit like saying "I plead guilty". Then adding "but I didn't didn't do it really".

As I said earlier, I don't know why they want you to attend. I'm only guessing. The people to ask are those who made that decision. Your time (and mine) would be better spent if you did that.

Since you seem unwilling or unable to do that, I don't think shouting the odds at me and others on here will help.

Meanwhile, thank you so much for taking the time to vent your frustration on me. I hope it makes you feel better but it won't help you much. I usually ask people whom I advise to come back and let everybody know how it all went. But in your case I’ll make an exception because I couldn’t give a toss.

Okell

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81908130#Comment_81908130

Pity you couldn't explain that properly the first time round.

PirateAndy

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81908511#Comment_81908511

Pity you talked as if you already knew the process and how it worked so it seemed as if it wasn't needed to be explained.

If there is a next time I'll make it a point to explain things to everyone like they are 5.

PirateAndy

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81908373#Comment_81908373

Perhaps instead of providing advice that's then used to form the plea… then telling me it's my fault for using that very advice which resulted in the outcome I outlined… then providing little to any other commentary other than "Well it's your fault for saying what you said" AFTER writing it based on the advice provided. All the while blithering for half the conversation to the other fella about this, that and the other.

You might get frustrated too.

But it's fine I have what I need. I'll go to court and clarify my already clear points again. Then get let off with the original fine amount and 3 points.

Then I'll come back and give a bit !!!!!! you to you n'all.

LightFlare

I’m pretty positive that you won’t be escaping with no points and no fine

The likely result (if you play it right) will be 3 and a fine

Without the advice given, you would almost certainly have been in receipt of 6 points and possibly 9 if you really messed up

I get the frustration, but people have genuinely tried to (and succeeded) in helping and have definitely saved you some points and £