Sick leave over Xmas

Ella_fella

If a companies holiday period runs from January to December and it has a shut down period over Xmas where one has to use their annual holiday allocation to cover this shutdown, if one was unable to attend work prior to and during Xmas due to sickness (also covering some days prebooked as holidays prior to the Xmas shutdown) then didn't return from sickness until the New Year would the business have to allow the employee to carry over holiday into the following year? (Assuming they would be paid company sick pay rather than SSP)

Even if it's policy states that it doesn't allow the carry over of holidays from one year to the next and the absence wouldn't be classified technically as LTS?

If so, would the Xmas Bank Holidays be included in the holidays allowed to be carried over? 

flaneurs_lobster

If you had a Fit Note from your GP covering the whole period that you were absent from work then I think you would have a good argument to allow carry-forward of annual leave.

Don't think that Bank Holidays are ever able to be carried over, in much the same way that weekends (or other non-working days) wouldn't be.

Without the Fit Note, I'd think that most employers would insist on the rules as per.

Ella_fella

flaneurs_lobster said:

If you had a Fit Note from your GP covering the whole period that you were absent from work then I think you would have a good argument to allow carry-forward of annual leave.

Don't think that Bank Holidays are ever able to be carried over, in much the same way that weekends (or other non-working days) wouldn't be.

Without the Fit Note, I'd think that most employers would insist on the rules as per.

Believe that GPs won't issue Fit Notes retrospectively as they know most businesses allow employees to self certificate up to and including the first 7 days of sickness so the absence period would be a mixture of self certification and GPs Fit Note.

Not sure if this would have a material bearing on the outcome as the whole period still would be classified as sickness with the employee unable to attend work?

Jackie1813

Holidays can usually be carried over as you cannot be on holiday and off sick at the same time. I  have never known bank holidays to be carried over.

twopenny

My understanding is that if you are on holiday and become ill that's just unfortunate.
However if you were off sick prior and had reported, self certified at the time they may be generous - less the bank holidays. They are non refundable.

You can't get wage payments for paid holiday AND sick pay,

But a lot is dependent on you having self certification and doctors note as said above to ask for that time back. 

JibberdyDacodo

Holidays can be carried over, but must be used within 18 months.

The Working Time Regulations 1998 (as ammended) said:

(15) Where, as a result of taking a period of sick leave in any leave year, a worker is unable to take some or all of the annual leave to which the worker is entitled in that leave year under this regulation, the worker is entitled to carry forward such untaken leave into the following leave year provided it is taken by the end of the period of 18 months from the end of the leave year in which the entitlement originally arose.

MattMattMattUK

Ella_fella said:

If a companies holiday period runs from January to December and it has a shut down period over Xmas where one has to use their annual holiday allocation to cover this shutdown, if one was unable to attend work prior to and during Xmas due to sickness (also covering some days prebooked as holidays prior to the Xmas shutdown) then didn't return from sickness until the New Year would the business have to allow the employee to carry over holiday into the following year? (Assuming they would be paid company sick pay rather than SSP)

Even if it's policy states that it doesn't allow the carry over of holidays from one year to the next and the absence wouldn't be classified technically as LTS?

If so, would the Xmas Bank Holidays be included in the holidays allowed to be carried over? 

I would expect under these circumstances that the employee messing around like this would be wise to spend the Christmas period looking for new employment as they may be at serious risk of being disposed of in some way, come the new year.

Ella_fella

MattMattMattUK said:

Ella_fella said:

If a companies holiday period runs from January to December and it has a shut down period over Xmas where one has to use their annual holiday allocation to cover this shutdown, if one was unable to attend work prior to and during Xmas due to sickness (also covering some days prebooked as holidays prior to the Xmas shutdown) then didn't return from sickness until the New Year would the business have to allow the employee to carry over holiday into the following year? (Assuming they would be paid company sick pay rather than SSP)

Even if it's policy states that it doesn't allow the carry over of holidays from one year to the next and the absence wouldn't be classified technically as LTS?

If so, would the Xmas Bank Holidays be included in the holidays allowed to be carried over? 

I would expect under these circumstances that the employee messing around like this would be wise to spend the Christmas period looking for new employment as they may be at serious risk of being disposed of in some way, come the new year.

Not sure where your comments come from regards "messing around" as am sure it isn't an uncommon phenomena that employees do have periods of genuine sickness which span the Xmas holidays and still aren't able to return to work after Xmas. 

Tabieth

MattMattMattUK said:

Ella_fella said:

If a companies holiday period runs from January to December and it has a shut down period over Xmas where one has to use their annual holiday allocation to cover this shutdown, if one was unable to attend work prior to and during Xmas due to sickness (also covering some days prebooked as holidays prior to the Xmas shutdown) then didn't return from sickness until the New Year would the business have to allow the employee to carry over holiday into the following year? (Assuming they would be paid company sick pay rather than SSP)

Even if it's policy states that it doesn't allow the carry over of holidays from one year to the next and the absence wouldn't be classified technically as LTS?

If so, would the Xmas Bank Holidays be included in the holidays allowed to be carried over? 

I would expect under these circumstances that the employee messing around like this would be wise to spend the Christmas period looking for new employment as they may be at serious risk of being disposed of in some way, come the new year.

Why? I don’t see anyone in the OP that suggests it’s not genuine sickness. 

Altior

Is this a random hypothetical, or a genuine scenario? If a genuine scenario, what dates do the fit note span?

Is the compelled leave due to shutdown part of statutory annual leave, or discretionary? 

Ella_fella

Altior said:

Is this a random hypothetical, or a genuine scenario? If a genuine scenario, what dates do the fit note span?

Is the compelled leave due to shutdown part of statutory annual leave, or discretionary? 

For these purposes let's assume that the GPs sick note runs from Xmas Eve and the following week, and the shutdown is compelled leave i.e. one would have to save holidays out of their annual entitlement to cover the shutdown period.