Contributions Based NS ESA to UC query (not transitional)

Altior

Apols, this seems a touch complicated to me. 

I'm on ESA, awaiting medical assessment. I have a fit note that takes me to March 2026, so one hopes the assessment will be completed by that time!

I have a query, I'm sure all the experts are aware, Cont based ESA stops after 12 months. For me that would be June.

What's the process at that point (I don't believe I will be able to work again)? Assuming my savings by that point will be under £16K, I can apply for UC? Should I apply for UC before that if my savings are under £16K? Even if they are over £16K currently? If so, do I have to go through a whole new application from scratch? Or will the system see that I am have already jumped through the necessary hoops?

The main reason I ask is that my savings are currently over £16K. However, I have a lot of debt. CCs and mortgage. It makes sense currently to carry that debt as I'm servicing it at 0% and the interest ranges from 5-8% (aside from mortgage). 

As I understand it, it would not be considered DOC if I used my savings to settle debt and/or overpay mortgage. The 'system' doesn't know my level of savings currently anyway, as I've only applied for NS ESA to date. The 0% balance transfer deals could dry up any time in any case. Plus, interest rates are falling currently.

Thanks! 
 
PS edited to add that my net savings are circa £25K currently, slowly burning through that with only £92 pw coming in, plus the yield on cash savings. 

Spoonie_Turtle

Altior said:

Apols, this seems a touch complicated to me. 

I'm on ESA, awaiting medical assessment. I have a fit note that takes me to March 2026, so one hopes the assessment will be completed by that time!

I have a query, I'm sure all the experts are aware, Cont based ESA stops after 12 months. For me that would be June.

What's the process at that point (I don't believe I will be able to work again)? Assuming my savings by that point will be under £16K, I can apply for UC? Should I apply for UC before that if my savings are under £16K? Even if they are over £16K currently? If so, do I have to go through a whole new application from scratch? Or will the system see that I am have already jumped through the necessary hoops?

The main reason I ask is that my savings are currently over £16K. However, I have a lot of debt. CCs and mortgage. It makes sense currently to carry that debt as I'm servicing it at 0% and the interest ranges from 5-8% (aside from mortgage). 

As I understand it, it would not be considered DOC if I used my savings to settle debt and/or overpay mortgage. The 'system' doesn't know my level of savings currently anyway, as I've only applied for NS ESA to date. The 0% balance transfer deals could dry up any time in any case. Plus, interest rates are falling currently.

Thanks! 
 
PS edited to add that my net savings are circa £25K currently, slowly burning through that with only £92 pw coming in, plus the yield on cash savings. 

You can apply for UC whenever your savings go below £16,000.  If you're still in receipt of ESA that will be deducted in full.

What happens to your ESA after 12months depends on the outcome of your work capability assessment (WCA).  If put in the Support Group it will carry on indefinitely, until/unless you're later reassessed with a different outcome.
If put in the Work-Related Activity Group it will end.
If found Fit for Work I believe it will end immediately.
But you can of course challenge a decision if you feel it's incorrect.  To do so, it's best to know how it's assessed and which descriptors you meet and thus which group you should be in.  (Right now I don't have brainpower to find the info to link to though, sorry.)

Once you've had your WCA then the outcome will also apply to UC as well - unless your ESA ends and you leave a gap before applying for UC, and then you would have to go through the assessment process again.

It will not be deprivation of capital to pay off debts or overpay your mortgage.

Altior

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Altior said:

Apols, this seems a touch complicated to me. 

I'm on ESA, awaiting medical assessment. I have a fit note that takes me to March 2026, so one hopes the assessment will be completed by that time!

I have a query, I'm sure all the experts are aware, Cont based ESA stops after 12 months. For me that would be June.

What's the process at that point (I don't believe I will be able to work again)? Assuming my savings by that point will be under £16K, I can apply for UC? Should I apply for UC before that if my savings are under £16K? Even if they are over £16K currently? If so, do I have to go through a whole new application from scratch? Or will the system see that I am have already jumped through the necessary hoops?

The main reason I ask is that my savings are currently over £16K. However, I have a lot of debt. CCs and mortgage. It makes sense currently to carry that debt as I'm servicing it at 0% and the interest ranges from 5-8% (aside from mortgage). 

As I understand it, it would not be considered DOC if I used my savings to settle debt and/or overpay mortgage. The 'system' doesn't know my level of savings currently anyway, as I've only applied for NS ESA to date. The 0% balance transfer deals could dry up any time in any case. Plus, interest rates are falling currently.

Thanks! 
 
PS edited to add that my net savings are circa £25K currently, slowly burning through that with only £92 pw coming in, plus the yield on cash savings. 

You can apply for UC whenever your savings go below £16,000.  If you're still in receipt of ESA that will be deducted in full.

What happens to your ESA after 12months depends on the outcome of your work capability assessment (WCA).  If put in the Support Group it will carry on indefinitely, until/unless you're later reassessed with a different outcome.
If put in the Work-Related Activity Group it will end.
If found Fit for Work I believe it will end immediately.
But you can of course challenge a decision if you feel it's incorrect.  To do so, it's best to know how it's assessed and which descriptors you meet and thus which group you should be in.  (Right now I don't have brainpower to find the info to link to though, sorry.)

Once you've had your WCA then the outcome will also apply to UC as well - unless your ESA ends and you leave a gap before applying for UC, and then you would have to go through the assessment process again.

It will not be deprivation of capital to pay off debts or overpay your mortgage.

That's great, thank you!

I became familiar with the Descriptors when populating the extensive ESA50! So that part is all good. 

I do now need to consider if it's worth keeping the capital to gain the interest, or just settle the debts before June and applying for UC. It is a comfort blanket right now to have that cash in reserve. Even though it will need to be repaid eventually, I am still receiving 0% transfer deals, and all the minimums bar one are 1%. 

Perhaps the logical thing to do is await the WCA, and resulting decision. 

One follow up question if you don't mind, is UC as slow as ESA? For example would I need to apply by March to get a decision before June? Thanks

Spoonie_Turtle

For UC your claim starts as soon as you press 'submit' in your claim.  One month later you get your statement calculating your payment, then 5-7 days later (ish) you get the payment in your bank.

[I'm not sure if the 3-month waiting period for the LCWRA element (if you're put into the Support Group for ESA) will apply, but I have a feeling it might as your UC would be a new claim not a migration.]

Yamor

If you are put in the support group for your ESA claim, then you will not have to wait 3 months to get the LCWRA element added to your UC claim.

What that means in practice is that if you claim UC after the 13-week assessment phase of ESA has finished, then you will get the LCWRA element from the start of your UC claim. If you claim UC during the 13-week assessment phase, then the LCWRA element will be added in the AP in which the assessment phase finishes (at least according to current DWP guidance - the guidance used to say differently until a couple of years ago).

One point to consider is that the LCWRA element of UC is reducing by about half in April next year, but not for claimants who are receiving it already prior to 6th April. So, if at all possible, claim UC before 6th April next year.

Altior

Thanks both.

I'm almost at 6 months now since my original ESA application. I assume that means that the assessment phase has technically passed, even though nothing has happened since I submitted the ESA50 (within the deadline).

Good to know about the 6th April thing. My inferred capital stash dates back years before I was ill, and relates to stoozing (borrowing from CCs at 0% to gain 'free' interest). My stoozing pot right now is over £40K, if I suddenly pay them all back it might standout somewhat!

Other options (on top of debt repayment) I believe are pension contributions. And I do have something on the near horizon, I'll likely need to do a lease extension some time in the next 4 years as it's down to 85 years currently. But getting that completed before April would be challenging I suspect. I sold my car when I was forced to leave work, but currently finding how challenging it is not to have one. So a modest car would come in handy again. 

TimeLord1

Do you know who was doing your assessment?

If the DWP says they are waiting for your assessment report, the delay might be with the company that carries out the Work Capability Assessment (WCA). Depending on where you live, this is usually Maximus (Health Assessment Advisory Service), Capita, or Ingeus. Depending on your location in the UK.

Scroll table 👈

London & South East	Ingeus	0800 072 0350
Midlands & Wales	Capita	0800 072 0222
Northern England & Scotland	Maximus	0800 288 8777

Altior

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81871997#Comment_81871997

Thanks, mine was completed by Serco, and I've received a text confirming that the DWP have received the report. So now waiting for the final step, the DM to get to it. From what I've read, this could be anything from a few days to a few months, and there's nothing much that can be done to expedite it. You can get the DWP to hint what the report recommends, as they ordinarily go with the recommendation from the assessor.

TimeLord1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81872386#Comment_81872386

Ok I guess all you can do is chase up ESA once they give you the letter you can request further evidence of assessors decision and DM point scores then if you disagree with anything you have the documents to hand.

Altior

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81872502#Comment_81872502

I've read that often the first way claimants find out what the decision is, is from the payment amount changing. Today (Friday) is my scheduled date to receive the payment, and it was the standard one. So it's either WRA, or more than likely I'm now waiting into next week!

TimeLord1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81872586#Comment_81872586

Yes and if they backdate the decision then you can see a difference but the letter will explain that. But they often send letters people find difficult to understand, they end up asking on forums.