Lloyds Bank brings fictional fraud to life?

flaneurs_lobster

Analyst said:

Also, the FOS will not accept any evidence without a paid for audit, so it is not the free service advertised.

Manifestly and demonstrably untrue.

 If your case is indeed the one I identified in a previous post (you have not refuted that it is) then the FO decided that in your case

 ...it is not the role of this Service to audit Mr and Mrs S’s mortgage account. If they wish for the account to be audited, then they should instruct a professional to complete this.

The vast majority of cases referred to the FOS require no such audit (or the request for one).

lfc321

Are you able to explain more clearly what you think has happened? I.e. mortgage balances, interest rate, offset balance, term remaining, monthly payments - and how these have changed over time. It’s not possible for any of us to evaluate your claim without these details - it’s too unclear what’s actually happened or what you think Lloyds has done wrong. 

I would certainly not rely on “AI” for stuff like this: even when it is correct (far from always) much will depend on precisely what you ask it. 

MWT

flaneurs_lobster said:

Analyst said:

Also, the FOS will not accept any evidence without a paid for audit, so it is not the free service advertised.

Manifestly and demonstrably untrue.

 If your case is indeed the one I identified in a previous post (you have not refuted that it is) then the FO decided that in your case

 ...it is not the role of this Service to audit Mr and Mrs S’s mortgage account. If they wish for the account to be audited, then they should instruct a professional to complete this.

The vast majority of cases referred to the FOS require no such audit (or the request for one).

Thanks for the earlier link, that does seem to be both clear and definitive.

There are quirks in the way that offset mortgages work when there are interest changes, but nothing seems wrong in the way this one has worked.  

Analyst

The only way that Lloyds Bank can be getting their reduced term numbers is if:

They use a mortgage balance that is net of the offset balance (they have confirmed they do not do this).

And

Use someone else’s offset balance (ours does not have the necessary large fluctuations).

For example:

If the mortgage is £200,000 and the offset is £50,000, then the net balance would be £150,000.

If the £50,000 offset balance reduces to zero, the net balance would increase by a third to £200,000, and increase the term.

This is the way that Lloyds Bank produces forecasts on the offset statements.

 

The fact that Lloyds Bank are incorrect can be verified in many different ways, using the first trigger event, to calculate the reduced term.

In our case, Lloyds Bank calculated the reduced term at the first trigger event as 290 months.

Analyst

First, we can use Lloyds Bank’s own formula, and calculate the reduced term as 296 months.

This was 3 months into the mortgage, so the correct answer is to reduce the term by an extra month (300 – 3 – 1 = 296), while Lloyds Bank calculates (300 – 3 – 7 = 290).

Lloyds Bank are out by a factor of 7 in just this one example.

Analyst

We can use an online mortgage calculator. The one on the Nationwide website allows the term to be specified in months.

https://www.nationwide.co.uk/mortgages/mortgage-calculators/overpayment-calculator/

Select repayment

Enter the original amount borrowed

Enter the original interest rate

Enter the original term

Select one off lump sum overpayment, and enter the overpayment to date (works if not too many months have passed).

 

Reduced term is 296 months.

Analyst

Use a simple line by line calculation.

Start with the opening balance

Add the interest for the month

Deduct the overpayment (offset interest) and the original mortgage payment.

Use that total as the next month’s opening balance, and repeat until the balance goes zero (assume no future overpayments).

 

Reduced term is 296 months.

Analyst

flaneurs_lobster said:

Analyst said:

flaneurs_lobster said:

So, in essence, you have a complaint with Lloyds Bank as to how they calculate the remaining balance on your mortgage.

Lloyds have rejected your complaint.

You have taken your complaint to the FOS and they have not upheld your complaint.

Are you asking for advice on how to take your complaint further?

EDIT : If you add the FOS Decision Reference then those who are interested might be able to comment further.

The FOS did not even name our complaint in the decision, so the decision has no value.

I don't understand this comment.

Could you confirm or otherwise that this is the FOS decision that you mention in your OP and that you claim has "no value"?

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN-5750324.pdf

You could have equally selected DRN-3305295, or many others.

In every case the Ombudsman accepts the flawed argument that an event that occurs every time, can cause an increase. It cannot, because both the previous and new mortgage payments are increased for the same reason, the end of month payment is excluded in both cases.

Yes, the impact can increase as the mortgage nears it’s end, but even at an extreme example, it only explained 15% or 1/6 of the increase

Analyst

flaneurs_lobster said:

Analyst said:

Also, the FOS will not accept any evidence without a paid for audit, so it is not the free service advertised.

Manifestly and demonstrably untrue.

 If your case is indeed the one I identified in a previous post (you have not refuted that it is) then the FO decided that in your case

 ...it is not the role of this Service to audit Mr and Mrs S’s mortgage account. If they wish for the account to be audited, then they should instruct a professional to complete this.

The vast majority of cases referred to the FOS require no such audit (or the request for one).

So what part of "they should instruct a professional" did you not understand? It is demonstrably true, using your example.

Analyst

MWT said:

flaneurs_lobster said:

Analyst said:

Also, the FOS will not accept any evidence without a paid for audit, so it is not the free service advertised.

Manifestly and demonstrably untrue.

 If your case is indeed the one I identified in a previous post (you have not refuted that it is) then the FO decided that in your case

 ...it is not the role of this Service to audit Mr and Mrs S’s mortgage account. If they wish for the account to be audited, then they should instruct a professional to complete this.

The vast majority of cases referred to the FOS require no such audit (or the request for one).

Thanks for the earlier link, that does seem to be both clear and definitive.

There are quirks in the way that offset mortgages work when there are interest changes, but nothing seems wrong in the way this one has worked.  

What quirk with interest rate changes would that be? Do you have any evidence?

When you add interest, you also increase the monthly payment, so the two cancel out. The same happens when you reduce the interest.

The only impact interest rates have, is on the interest paid each month, and that happens in between the mortgage payment calculations.

Let's be absolutely clear, if there are any quirks, Lloyds Bank have not informed us of any.