At a complete loss who belongs to what body for PCN appeal

TSH42

The other month I received a Parking Charge Notice through the post from a company called myparkingcharge.co.uk for overstaying in Smyth street car park in Wakefield.

The reason for the overstay was due to a medical condition I have called Ulcerative Colitis. 

It was fairly late in the evening around 10.40 when heading back to the car, that I urgently needed the use of a toilet and had to divert from the car park to quickly find a restaurant to use their toilet. Anyone with this debilitating disease will know full well how quickly one needs to find a loo.

To cut a long story short this took me 20 minutes over the allotted time on the ticket purchased from the pay and display machine. Ticket expired 10.50 left car park 11.10.

I appealed to myparkingcharge.co.uk using their online form explaining my situation and sending images of letters from my IBD consultant to my doctor as proof of my disease and how severe it is.

My appeal was rejected and the rejection letter said I may appeal to the IAS within 28 days.

I was wondering if any knowledgeable person on here could clarify a few question for me please?

Maybe I'm just old and stupid, but everything seem as clear as mud to me!

I could not find out who the landowner of the car park was but the signs in the car park say 'Excel Parking'. Also on the signs it says 'by using the car park you are entering into a contract with Vehicle Control Services Ltd'.

According to the BPA website: www.britishparking.co.uk/bpa-members 'Excel Parking Ltd' are members.

Vehicle Control Services Ltd however, are IPC members.

MyParkingCharge.co.uk is a trading style of the Excel Parking Services Group who are also IPC members.

My appeal rejection says to appeal to the IAS is this correct?

Should I be appealing to the IAS?

Although originally appealing on medical grounds, on the night of parking it was absolutely bouncing it down with rain and there was no lighting on or around the car par sign near the machine and was very dark. I only obtained the above information i.e Excel Parking & VCS Ltd signage info from Google street view and images others have posted on Google (see attached image).

Thank you.

Gr1pr

The private parking industry is currently unregulated,  so study the official MSE advice 

Excel Parking are not the landowner's,  neither are VCS,  Somebody else is the actual landowner, find out who

Both companies are IPC AOS members,  not BPA AOS members. ( but they are probably corporate members of the BPA. )

The 2 companies are sister companies,  same offices, same owner, SRS,,  in Sheffield 

The IAS is a kangaroo court,  don't bother appealing to them , don't pay either 

Do complain to the landowner's or managing agents  asking for a cancellation due to the circumstances,  plan A

Ideally you should have either extended the parking or bought another ticket,  because the first ticket didn't cover the time on site, on that private car park , which was their reason for issuing a pcn

Ps, that Smyth St car park,  Wakefield,  has been a controversial site for a decade or more,  see this thread from a court case 7 years ago 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5889051/win-against-excel-parking-for-smyth-street-wakefield-in-court

Do not pay, do not appeal, definitely complain , because the landowner or managing agents may take pity on yo, but the private parking companies won't 

Umkomaas

I post this advice from time to time:

SOME IDEAS FOR DETERMINING WHO OWNS THE LAND 

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for a small fee they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. If you haven't already done so, give us the name of the car park/site/location, we may have seen other cases there. 

James_Poisson

I understand your problem from personal experience, but you are dealing with greedy scammers that don't own the car park and get their profits from issuing PCN's to people like you, they have no compassion, sympathy or any interest in you what so ever, only their bank balance, hard facts but there you are.

That sign is so busy and looks to be designed that way to be confusing why put silly logos down the side, why is the font so small, why is the PCN charge hidden at the bottom, and at night you would be hard pressed to read it (dated photo needed for evidence in the dark).

But the industry is rotten, it is unregulated, and there is no appeal that is fair and above board except the County Court, which is why you need to get evidence now just in case.

The land owner may be more sympathetic.

TSH42

Thank you to all who have taken the time to respond to my issue. Very much appreciated.

Am I being naive in thinking that if I contact Excel Parking and ask them who the landowner is they would supply this information?

TSH42

I just don't think it is fair to charge £60/£100 for overstaying 20 minutes or 10 minutes if you count the 10 minutes grace period - considering I so desperately needed a toilet. It's only £8 to park for a full day.

TSH42

I know I may be going off on a tangent a bit here (as it involves a court case between Vehicle Control Services Ltd and HMRC regarding VAT) but I did find something on the internet here: 

taxandchancery_ut.decisions.tribunals.gov.uk/Documents/decisions/vehicle_control_services_v_hmrc.pdf

(i can't post links yet so copy and past above into a search engine address bar)

It mentions on several occasions that VCS Ltd have no license to occupy the land per say and that there is no contract between VCS and the motorists.

Does make for interesting read though!

Coupon-mad

No it doesn't make interesting reading; that case is ancient and irrelevant to you. You can stop randomly Googling. The experts are here and we know about every reported parking court case and relevant law since c2010.

Come on... of course Excel are NOT going to tell you who the landowner is. I told you the two places to easily find that info; you could know who to contact today, if you look where I said.

You are NOT NOT NOT contacting Excel.

James_Poisson

You really need to stop thinking you are dealing with a fluffy reasonable company, they want to scam you of cash, not help you in any way what so ever. 

A grace period isn't a free parking period, it's an exiting period after your parking is up, you have already told them by outlining your problems and what happened on the day that you overstayed, forget that all that they are not going to take any notice.

The advice you need is here stop wasting your efforts and stop overthinking it the routes outlined her have been evolved over 17 years of experience.

TSH42

Thanks again for the replies.

My apologies for being so naive!

So find out who owns the land and appeal to them should be my next port of call?

Gr1pr states not to bother appealing to the IAS. Would this not go against me if it goes to court, having not exhausted all avenues first? Would the judge not see me as being ignorant?

Umkomaas

TSH42 said:

Thanks again for the replies.

My apologies for being so naive!

So find out who owns the land and appeal to them should be my next port of call?

Gr1pr states not to bother appealing to the IAS. Would this not go against me if it goes to court, having not exhausted all avenues first? Would the judge not see me as being ignorant?

Plan A first. 

Why would a Judge see you as being ‘ignorant’ when all the evidence (including the publicly declared policy of the IAS) shows that 96% of all IAS appeals are rejected?  How hard do you think a Judge would expect you to bang your head against a brick wall?