Please help - understanding my heating / hot water system

Albermarle

Fishandchips80 said:

@QrizB Thanks, this is really helpful. 

It’s a Worcester boiler down in the kitchen, but there’s nothing I can see anywhere on it that shows me what model it is. 

Does this mean then that I’m always going to be paying for heating the water, where I’m increasing the temp on the Honeywell thermostat during the day to get the heating on for a bit?

also, if the Drayton had previously been set to be on during eg 12-5pm everyday, would that have been heating the water during those times even if the heating wasn’t on because  I had lowered the Honeywell thermostat?

Regarding the estimated reads - I  did take a reading when I moved in, but in the midst of all the moving chaos I can’t find a record of what it was or if I submitted it to the provider. 

The end reading of the latest bill is close enough to the current meter reading, so looks accurate enough in that respect

The estimated reading could be way off the actual, so you might be worrying about a big bill for nothing.
Did you look for a small thermostat on the hot water tank ?

QrizB

Photos of everything, as requested above, will help.

Domestic heating is usually either S-plan, with two (or more) two-port zone valves:

Or Y-plan, with a single three-port mid-position valve:

Which valve(s) operate when and how the boiler-heated water flows around the system would normally be controlled by the progammer, the Drayton device.

You've got a one-zone programmer so it doesn't have the outputs to control the zone valves or mid-position valve. If you have zone valves at all, they're not being controlled by the LP711. We need to work out what, if anything, is filling this role.

Your photos should help us work out whether or not you have zone valves and what is connected to them.

EssexHebridean

If I were you I would make finding that opening reading my absolute priority. As a stopgap, take a reading today, both meters , and photograph both meter readings for your own records too. As for the original move-in day one - might you have written it on paperwork you were dealing with at the time? Do you have a folder with all paperwork relating to the move where it might be? Did you photograph the meters at the time perhaps, and still have those photos on your phone? 

Robin9

Fishandchips80 said:

Thanks everybody for taking the time to comment and help- it’s greatly appreciated.

.................... 

Both say estimated reads for gas. The tariff is their standard variable one, which I inherited when I moved in. 

I’ve now switched to a new provider, so the November bill above is also my final bill with that supplier.

the meter says m3 but I don’t see this mentioned anywhere on the bill.
 
............

Estimated bills are bad news -  if nothing else it ends in confession.Get into the habit of reading your meters regularly. 

What reading did you give to your new supplier. ?  They will give this to your old supplier and they need to agree.

Look closer at your bill -  m3 will be near your meter readings . I ask because it is possible that your meter has been changed to metric but the records have not been updated correctly.

Are your electrics estimated as well/

sheenas

Fishandchips80 said:

Thanks everybody for taking the time to comment and help- it’s greatly appreciated.

So, I have had 2 bills since I moved in at the end of October:
October bill (billing for 4 days in October) was a credit of c.£40. Which I queried why it was a credit and they said it was an error. 

November bill is the one that’s £500. 

Both say estimated reads for gas. The tariff is their standard variable one, which I inherited when I moved in. 

I’ve now switched to a new provider, so the November bill above is also my final bill with that supplier.

the meter says m3 but I don’t see this mentioned anywhere on the bill.

regarding the Drayton, the model is LP711. I did look up the manual, but it doesn’t give me any clarity regarding the hot water for this specific model - I can’t see any separate controls or settings on it for hot water, so I’m assuming it controls both simultaneously and I can’t separate out the hot water. If this is indeed the case, I guess my query is - if I’ve set the settings on Drayton to eg 6:30am-7:30am, will it only heat the hot water during those set times, or if I’m bumping the Honeywell thermostat up at other times during the day is it also then going to start heating the water during those times? (And is there any way to avoid it doing that to save on cost : unnecessary heating of hot water)?

Thank you! 

That is the default setting. I sure it’s the same one as
i had a few houses ago. It fiddly but it can be done
separately. 

The billing issue happened to me and was
a pain to get sorted. I was lucky and got the reading from the previous owner. 

Fishandchips80

@QrizB here are the photos of the various components

QrizB

In the cupboad with the hot water tank, are there any motorised valves? They'll look a bit like this, a metal or plastic box about the size of a pack of playing cards (but a bit thicker) attached to the pipework and with an electrical cable trailing from it?

Fishandchips80

Would it be these @QrizB ? 

QrizB

Yes, those are two 2-port valves; one marked CH and one marked HW.

I can't see from that angle, but there should be a pipe joining at a T-piece between them? If so, it looks like a S-plan system.

The question then will be, where do those two black electrical cables go?

matelodave

They are marked CH and HW so that's a bit of a clue but you do need to find out how the system has been cabled between the controllers, boiler, stats and valves.

I'm guessing but dont know, that its possible that the Drayton controller is just operating the HW valve with hopefully a control signal to fire the boiler. So in effect it does its own thing independent from the heating. Whereas the room stat is programmable allowing different temps at different times. This could also  control the boiler and room temps independently from the heating by controlling the CH valve and boiler.

You'd need to poke around to see what happens when the controller call for heat.

Reduce the room temperature control so the heating is off and shut off the Drayton controller. Check what happens when the Drayon  controller switches on - does the HW valve open and boiler fire up (check if the pipe going to the cylinder gets hot) and that the pipe going to the heating circuit stays cool.

Then turn off the Drayton controller, make sure the HW valve closes and the boiler stops running

Now try turning up the heating - the CH valve should open, the boiler should run and the pipe from the valve should get hot ( pipe from HW valve should stay cool )Turn it down and make sure that the valve closes and the boiler shuts down.

You've then established that they do actually run independently. I'd then set the hot water to heat once or twice a day for an hour or so each and tweak the boiler temperature setting down to around 55 degrees which should be plenty enough for hot water and heating. You can then adjust your timings to suit and perhaps crank the boiler temp down a bit until you aren't quite warm enough or it takes too long to get the room/house up to temperature (possibly down to 50 degrees). 

The lower you can get the boiler temp then the better the efficiency and cheaper it is to run.

As other have said, check your bills and readings. Estimated reading especially if the initial readings were omitted or ignored can take some sorting out. Likewise always check you bills against readings (ideally one a month) and get them corrected if they are using estimates