Please help - understanding my heating / hot water system

Fishandchips80

Please can anybody help me, I’m desperate to try and understand how our heating and hot water system works, following a £500 energy bill I just received for last month

I just moved into the house a month and a half ago. It has solar, and a hot water tank. We always seem to have piping hot water all day, so I’m worried that might be what’s causing the high gas bill (it’s not a combi boiler so I shouldn’t have hot water on demand). My issue is I can’t figure out how to control the hot water settings. Here’s what equipment we have:

Worcester boiler in kitchen (this doesn’t seem to have any controls for hot water)

Drayton Lifestyle control panel in bathroom where hot water tank is. There is ability to set schedules on this, but it’s not clear to me if that’s controlling the heating or hot water or both.

Honeywell thermostat - I use this to set the schedule for heating / adjust the temp up and down as needed. There doesn’t seem to be any control for hot water on this.

I’m also unsure that if I put the heating on by raising the temperature on the Honeywell thermostat, that also heating hot water (and if so, is there a way to avoid heating the hot water everything I bump the heating up?)

There is also an ‘eddi’ micro generation energy diverter in the cupboard where the hot water tank is - I’m guessing this may be something to do with the solar.

Please can anyone help me understand this system I have, and especially the questions around hot water as I’m hoping this was the cause of the high bill. I messed about with the Drayton schedule settings last night as they seemed to have it set to be on for a big chunk during the day from like 12 noon, so I’ve changed that. Not sure if this was the right thing to do.

Thank you! 

Robin9

Can we first check you are being billed correctly ?

Have a good look at your bills and find the bit that has the meter readings .   What are the readings and the dates ?  Include the letters A C E S or our read/your read..

Particulalry for the gas -  look at the meter - is is marked ft3 or m3 -  note the serial number. Now look back at the bill - are these descriptions and numbers the same?

Heedtheadvice

Sounds like me you have a system boiler. It should have a temperature control for the boiler. That can be set as low as 50 degrees. Post boiler model to get advice. That .akes it efficient.

Your Drayton should have comprehensive separate control of central heating  and hot water see if the owing helps to get the correct manual https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&hs=Rbe9&sca_esv=6d76dc318ac9b9d4&q=Drayton+lifestyle+controller+user+manual&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiXkouh8sGRAxWWXUEAHdsWDJwQ1QJ6BAhvEAE&biw=265&bih=123&dpr=2.86

Set it for times you need heating  and times to heat up the hot water and the honeywell to the desired room temperature, eg. 20degrees. Do you have individual radiator controls such as TRVs?

The Eddi's main purpose is to heat the tank of water when solar generation is in excess. You will not be getting much if any at this time of year so you can switch it off for a few days without issue whips you get the rest sorted.

It would be useful to get house details, how much you are at home and actual power meter reading for consumption comparisons. Size lifestyle and excess ventilation/lack of insulation can make a big difference. meter reading difference over a week will help as will knowing if your blood is for actual readings or estimates. That will all help with further advice by posters.

sheenas

So lets start with the easy bit. The Eddi is a device that enables the Solar system to heat hot water with surplus electricity from your solar system. This may well be why the water is always hot, but we can ignore this if it's a larger Gas bill as you suggest?

Step one look at the bill. Does the bill cover the correct period and is the Gas reading and Estimate. Further check what tariff they have you on, is it correct? Once we have this out the way we can look at the boiler.

I suspect that you have a system boiler (if you have a tank). The Drayton is used to control both hot water and central heating time schedules. Google and find a guide for you model. The control has a timer for when you want hot water and another timer for when you want central heating. The Honeywell controls the temperature when the Drayton central heating timer is on.  You can check this is working from the Drayton or boiler, bother should have a work light when the Drayton schedule is active.

Now the Eddi is most likely controlled by the App. The device needs to connect the Wi-Fi and you can find a YouTube video for that. The Eddi is connect to the Immersion heater and that therefore should be switched on and ensure the Eddi is not set to Bypass mode.

You may also have a Zappi EV charger and The Eddi & Zappi would work together and this might be a bit more complex to setup as you might have also have  MyEnergi account? I shall not try and guess your configuration as your issue is with the Gas bill.
I hope this helps

Albermarle

Fishandchips80 said:

Please can anybody help me, I’m desperate to try and understand how our heating and hot water system works, following a £500 energy bill I just received for last month

I just moved into the house a month and a half ago. It has solar, and a hot water tank. We always seem to have piping hot water all day, so I’m worried that might be what’s causing the high gas bill (it’s not a combi boiler so I shouldn’t have hot water on demand). My issue is I can’t figure out how to control the hot water settings. Here’s what equipment we have:

Worcester boiler in kitchen (this doesn’t seem to have any controls for hot water)

It effectively does the same when heating the water for the central heating, as when it is heating the hot water to go round the coil in the hot water tank . Valves divert the hot water from the boiler to the heating or hot water ( or both at the same time ) .

Drayton Lifestyle control panel in bathroom where hot water tank is. There is ability to set schedules on this, but it’s not clear to me if that’s controlling the heating or hot water or both.

It will do both - as others have said read the instructions on line.

Honeywell thermostat - I use this to set the schedule for heating / adjust the temp up and down as needed. There doesn’t seem to be any control for hot water on this.

The hot water tank should have its own thermostat, usually a dial sticking out of the side of the tank. It might not be immediately visible so have a look around the side/back of the tank. It should be set around 65 degrees.

I’m also unsure that if I put the heating on by raising the temperature on the Honeywell thermostat, that also heating hot water (and if so, is there a way to avoid heating the hot water everything I bump the heating up?) The Honeywell thermostat for the heating will have no effect on the hot water.

There is also an ‘eddi’ micro generation energy diverter in the cupboard where the hot water tank is - I’m guessing this may be something to do with the solar.

Please can anyone help me understand this system I have, and especially the questions around hot water as I’m hoping this was the cause of the high bill. I messed about with the Drayton schedule settings last night as they seemed to have it set to be on for a big chunk during the day from like 12 noon, so I’ve changed that. Not sure if this was the right thing to do.

Thank you! 

Some comments in bold.


Sounds like me you have a system boiler. It should have a temperature control for the boiler. That can be set as low as 50 degrees. Post boiler model to get advice. That .akes it efficient.

It will make the heating efficient, but is too low for heating the water to a high enough temperature to kill any bugs. 

Fishandchips80

Thanks everybody for taking the time to comment and help- it’s greatly appreciated.

So, I have had 2 bills since I moved in at the end of October:
October bill (billing for 4 days in October) was a credit of c.£40. Which I queried why it was a credit and they said it was an error. 

November bill is the one that’s £500. 

Both say estimated reads for gas. The tariff is their standard variable one, which I inherited when I moved in. 

I’ve now switched to a new provider, so the November bill above is also my final bill with that supplier.

the meter says m3 but I don’t see this mentioned anywhere on the bill.

regarding the Drayton, the model is LP711. I did look up the manual, but it doesn’t give me any clarity regarding the hot water for this specific model - I can’t see any separate controls or settings on it for hot water, so I’m assuming it controls both simultaneously and I can’t separate out the hot water. If this is indeed the case, I guess my query is - if I’ve set the settings on Drayton to eg 6:30am-7:30am, will it only heat the hot water during those set times, or if I’m bumping the Honeywell thermostat up at other times during the day is it also then going to start heating the water during those times? (And is there any way to avoid it doing that to save on cost : unnecessary heating of hot water)?

Thank you! 

Mister_G

The LP711 is a single channel programmer so can not control the heating and hot water seperately.

QrizB

Fishandchips80 said:

So, I have had 2 bills since I moved in at the end of October:
October bill (billing for 4 days in October) was a credit of c.£40. Which I queried why it was a credit and they said it was an error. 

November bill is the one that’s £500. 

Both say estimated reads for gas. 

Estimated bills are bad news.

What did your meter read on the day you moved in? What does it read today? How do those readings compare to the ones used for your estimated bills?

Fishandchips80 said:

I’ve now switched to a new provider, so the November bill above is also my final bill with that supplier.

Did you give your new supplier your actual meter readings when you switched?

Fishandchips80 said:

regarding the Drayton, the model is LP711.

The LP711 is a seven-day single-channel controller intended to control the space heating (radiators) on a combi boiler. It's not designed for use with a regular or system boiler, which seems to be what you've got.

Can you tell us the model of the boiler, so we can confirm this?

A regular or system boiler really needsa dual-channel controller like the Drayton LP722 (or the slightly simpler LP522):

https://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-lp722-2-channel-digital-programmer/26078

https://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-lp522-2-channel-digital-programmer/20673

If you're a keen DIYer you might be able to swap them yourself but otherwise it'll need a heating engineer or switched-on electrician.

Scot_39

For efficient radiator heating 50C might be OK.

But for efficient water heating you need a good 10-15C above tank temperature to do so -  moreover in summer months when want to minimise boiler run times without central heating active.  Base on hse 60C - thsts 70-75C.

Otherwise you have long cycles waiting for tge hest coil temp to cool back and refirevtge boiler - if at all.


See section here and comments re this posters findings for 50C tank targetv- 57 hw coil supply  too low, 66C required for speed.

https://forum.ovoenergy.com/home-and-heating-138/optimise-your-hot-water-set-up-17178

Fishandchips80

@QrizB Thanks, this is really helpful. 

It’s a Worcester boiler down in the kitchen, but there’s nothing I can see anywhere on it that shows me what model it is. 

Does this mean then that I’m always going to be paying for heating the water, where I’m increasing the temp on the Honeywell thermostat during the day to get the heating on for a bit?

also, if the Drayton had previously been set to be on during eg 12-5pm everyday, would that have been heating the water during those times even if the heating wasn’t on because  I had lowered the Honeywell thermostat?

Regarding the estimated reads - I  did take a reading when I moved in, but in the midst of all the moving chaos I can’t find a record of what it was or if I submitted it to the provider. 

The end reading of the latest bill is close enough to the current meter reading, so looks accurate enough in that respect

WIAWSNB

F&C, photos, please, of the Programmer, the room 'stat, the boiler, the hot cylinder and its surrounding bits. 

And, how big is this house? And what type? And how old? And how many rooms are you actually heating?