Appalling service from Zopa Biscuit a/c

wmb194

confederated said:

Ballard said:

Lower rates of credit interest?

But the only current account I have which pays interest on credit balances is LHV @ 4%. My main account with RBS pays nothing and, as far as I know, never has. Are you suggesting it might, were RBS able to guarantee no susceptibility to APP fraud or suchlike? And that LHV might even pay more? I somehow doubt it. In the UK most of us pay nothing for our current accounts - overseas the situation is often very different.

That's a promotional rate from a new entrant. Lloyds, HSBC, Barclays etc. don't offer that much if anything on their current accounts or savings accounts for that matter.

friolento

Chief_of_Staffy said:

friolento said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

TheBanker said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

friolento said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

friolento said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

I had this last week due to some miserable payment to a tradesman. I suspect the reason was because the business had just changed bank providers and the account was new. That's not an excuse, however, as I have no way of opting out of these absurd interrogations under which I must prove I'm not an idiot and don't have dementia.

ColdIron said:

They are just trying to protect your money. Would you feel happy if they paid it and you couldn't get it back or would you be posting that they were reckless?

As above all banks, and Zopa are a bank, can pend payments. Certainly not worth getting angry about

These checks are solely to limit the financial liability of the bank. There is no benefit whatsoever to the account holder. I wish people would stop posting this canard.

There is another canard, namely that banks will not recover their expenses from customers.

I've not heard that one, likely because it represents an irrelevant sum. The money estimated to be prevented by APP fraud annually is in the low £hundreds of millions, far below a single percentage point of banking industry profit. Nobody when asked if they are willing to pay another 20p of bank charges every year in return for no more intrusions, no more interrogations, no more blocking the spend of their 'own money', no hours or days or weeks wasted proving that they are not a criminal, will respond, "No thanks."

It doesn't matter how much is attributed to APP fraud (which, as I am sure most forumites know, doesn't include to card transactions) or any other type of fraud the bank reimburses the victims for: in the end it is all paid by the customers. As is the profit a retail bank makes.

If you're stating that the money currently lost to fraud would be charged to the customer then of course it matters how much is lost. And the fact is that if the anti-fraud measures did not exist then the extra billed to customers for losses to fraud would be so small as to be not worth discussing.

friolento said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

TheBanker said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

I had this last week due to some miserable payment to a tradesman. I suspect the reason was because the business had just changed bank providers and the account was new. That's not an excuse, however, as I have no way of opting out of these absurd interrogations under which I must prove I'm not an idiot and don't have dementia.

ColdIron said:

They are just trying to protect your money. Would you feel happy if they paid it and you couldn't get it back or would you be posting that they were reckless?

As above all banks, and Zopa are a bank, can pend payments. Certainly not worth getting angry about

These checks are solely to limit the financial liability of the bank. There is no benefit whatsoever to the account holder. I wish people would stop posting this canard.

The bank I work for does these checks. A few weeks ago they prevented a customer with limited mental capacity (which the bank were not aware of) from paying £13k to a "builder" who'd knocked on the door and told him he needed new roof tiles. I suspect that customer, and the family member who is now arranging Power of Attourney, are grateful that the payment didn't go through... 

Really. Please explain why they are grateful the payment didn't go through, bearing in mind the legal framework within which the bank is mandated to operate in these situations and which, given your username, you'll be fully conversant.

I can think of countless reasons why they are grateful, starting from not having to engage in reclaiming the money, to having to deal with the consequences of the missing money (e.g. would the person with the limited capacity have been able to pay their rent / mortgage / food / medication etc whilst the case was being investigated), and ending with potentially having the claim refused. The APP refund scheme isn't a free-for-all, nor are the refunds instant.

Would that we all live in a perfect world. The minor inconveniences of a small subset of people who are not capable of managing their own money in the first place cannot, under any reasonable assessment, justify the staggering levels of scrutiny, disruption, stress and indeed destroyed businesses and livelihoods of people who are simply trying to earn an honest living.

Who has had their business of livelihood destroyd by a fraud check on a payment?

Thousands of people, as you well know.

That sounds a vast exaggeration to me but perhaps I have missed the reports in credible media about it. 

It sounds like it.

I can't find any reports about livelihood or businesses having been destroyed by a fraud check on a payment.

Would you be kind enough to share the evidence?

Chief_of_Staffy

friolento said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

friolento said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

TheBanker said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

friolento said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

friolento said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

I had this last week due to some miserable payment to a tradesman. I suspect the reason was because the business had just changed bank providers and the account was new. That's not an excuse, however, as I have no way of opting out of these absurd interrogations under which I must prove I'm not an idiot and don't have dementia.

ColdIron said:

They are just trying to protect your money. Would you feel happy if they paid it and you couldn't get it back or would you be posting that they were reckless?

As above all banks, and Zopa are a bank, can pend payments. Certainly not worth getting angry about

These checks are solely to limit the financial liability of the bank. There is no benefit whatsoever to the account holder. I wish people would stop posting this canard.

There is another canard, namely that banks will not recover their expenses from customers.

I've not heard that one, likely because it represents an irrelevant sum. The money estimated to be prevented by APP fraud annually is in the low £hundreds of millions, far below a single percentage point of banking industry profit. Nobody when asked if they are willing to pay another 20p of bank charges every year in return for no more intrusions, no more interrogations, no more blocking the spend of their 'own money', no hours or days or weeks wasted proving that they are not a criminal, will respond, "No thanks."

It doesn't matter how much is attributed to APP fraud (which, as I am sure most forumites know, doesn't include to card transactions) or any other type of fraud the bank reimburses the victims for: in the end it is all paid by the customers. As is the profit a retail bank makes.

If you're stating that the money currently lost to fraud would be charged to the customer then of course it matters how much is lost. And the fact is that if the anti-fraud measures did not exist then the extra billed to customers for losses to fraud would be so small as to be not worth discussing.

friolento said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

TheBanker said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

I had this last week due to some miserable payment to a tradesman. I suspect the reason was because the business had just changed bank providers and the account was new. That's not an excuse, however, as I have no way of opting out of these absurd interrogations under which I must prove I'm not an idiot and don't have dementia.

ColdIron said:

They are just trying to protect your money. Would you feel happy if they paid it and you couldn't get it back or would you be posting that they were reckless?

As above all banks, and Zopa are a bank, can pend payments. Certainly not worth getting angry about

These checks are solely to limit the financial liability of the bank. There is no benefit whatsoever to the account holder. I wish people would stop posting this canard.

The bank I work for does these checks. A few weeks ago they prevented a customer with limited mental capacity (which the bank were not aware of) from paying £13k to a "builder" who'd knocked on the door and told him he needed new roof tiles. I suspect that customer, and the family member who is now arranging Power of Attourney, are grateful that the payment didn't go through... 

Really. Please explain why they are grateful the payment didn't go through, bearing in mind the legal framework within which the bank is mandated to operate in these situations and which, given your username, you'll be fully conversant.

I can think of countless reasons why they are grateful, starting from not having to engage in reclaiming the money, to having to deal with the consequences of the missing money (e.g. would the person with the limited capacity have been able to pay their rent / mortgage / food / medication etc whilst the case was being investigated), and ending with potentially having the claim refused. The APP refund scheme isn't a free-for-all, nor are the refunds instant.

Would that we all live in a perfect world. The minor inconveniences of a small subset of people who are not capable of managing their own money in the first place cannot, under any reasonable assessment, justify the staggering levels of scrutiny, disruption, stress and indeed destroyed businesses and livelihoods of people who are simply trying to earn an honest living.

Who has had their business of livelihood destroyd by a fraud check on a payment?

Thousands of people, as you well know.

That sounds a vast exaggeration to me but perhaps I have missed the reports in credible media about it. 

It sounds like it.

I can't find any reports about livelihood or businesses having been destroyed by a fraud check on a payment.

Would you be kind enough to share the evidence?

Two second Google, first page results. Or you can read the hundreds of accounts on review sites such as Trustpilot.

https://news.sky.com/story/debanking-fears-as-over-140k-business-accounts-closed-13082324

The data showed that out of about 5.3 million accounts held by small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs), 141,620 were forcibly closed by banks - 2.7% of the total... the committee said it was concerned that banks were giving a range of reasons for readily closing down business accounts with little or no notice.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-12336987/The-customers-complaining-bank-accounts-closed-without-explanation.html

Money Mail has spoken to dozens of people whose bank accounts were also shut abruptly without any explanation... The true cost of an account being closed was detailed by one business owner who says it has 'absolutely ruined his life'.

https://www.betterretailing.com/banks-freezing-closing-retailers-bank-business-accounts-fca-money-laundering-regulations-financial-conduct-authority-cash-deposit-limit/

High-street banks have been freezing and closing the business accounts of retailers who fail to meet new “unjustifiable” deadlines to comply with money-laundering regulations... The FCA also introduced new guidance for banks to carry out additional money-laundering checks, which is thought to be behind the wave of threats and freezes. 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/30/uk-banks-closing-more-than-1000-accounts-every-day

friolento

Thank you for the links. These are serious cases but none of them appear to be the result of fraud checks on a payment. They could be, though - and if the reason for closure is indeed fraud, I applaud the banks for blocking the offending accounts.

Chief_of_Staffy

friolento said:

Thank you for the links. These are serious cases but none of them appear to be the result of fraud checks on a payment. They could be, though - and if the reason for closure is indeed fraud, I applaud the banks for blocking the offending accounts.

Thousands every year are not fraud, just people trying to live their lives. It has been covered extensively in the media for years and the situation is getting worse.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/what-is-de-banking-and-could-it-happen-to-you-aS7i40R9V8Rd

Complaints to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) about account closures, or 'de-banking', have surged by 44% in the past year and more complaints are being upheld, warns Which? Money...

Complaints about de-banking to the FOS leapt from 2,683 in the 2022-23 financial year to 3,858 in 2023-2024...

Recent FOS decisions suggest more banks are closing accounts without justification, because a third of complaints in 2023-24 were upheld (meaning investigators or ombudsmen ruled in favour of the complainants), up from around a quarter in each of the previous three years.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-12851267/Barclays-debanked-residents-associations-pay-bills-blocks-flats.html

Residents associations have had their Barclays accounts closed or restricted with little warning in recent months, This is Money can reveal...

In total, around 70 small organisations from parish councils to charities have now contacted This is Money about their bank accounts being closed or temporarily frozen by Barclays.  

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/banking/current-accounts/barclays-debanked-me-being-expat-nearly-cost-my-home/

Barclays shut down his account in January without him knowing – sparking a near year-long row that saw him miss vital buy-to-let mortgage repayments and his home in England nearly being repossessed.

sheramber

eskbanker said:

sheramber said:

I had the Spanish Inquisition for an hour when paying an invoice that was passed to me personally by the workman when he finished the work.

I had banked with RBS for 51 years.  

So you weren't expecting that then?

Not expecting what?

GeoffTF

sheramber said:

eskbanker said:

sheramber said:

I had the Spanish Inquisition for an hour when paying an invoice that was passed to me personally by the workman when he finished the work.

I had banked with RBS for 51 years.  

So you weren't expecting that then?

Not expecting what?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5Df191WJ3o

eskbanker

sheramber said:

eskbanker said:

sheramber said:

I had the Spanish Inquisition for an hour when paying an invoice that was passed to me personally by the workman when he finished the work.

I had banked with RBS for 51 years.  

So you weren't expecting that then?

Not expecting what?

The Spanish Inquisition - as above, it's a Monty Python reference, dating from the decade in which you started banking with RBS:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spanish_Inquisition_(Monty_Python)