Appalling service from Zopa Biscuit a/c

confederated

I stick with RBS because they never hold my payments - I often see a grand entering my account and I immediately transfer it to my cash ISA. When I have previously tried this with the Co-operative Bank, TSB or Starling it has triggered their sledgehammer fraud algorithms. It must be even worse when there is no way to talk to someone at the bank to sort it out. This is the reason I am not ready to use LHV as my main account. The Co-operative Bank did this so often I was nervous making a payment. Triodos was the worst and "faster" payments were routinely held until I called to ask why the payment hadn't been made. Even if they didn't trigger the fraud algorithm they took hours to reach the destination account.

flaneurs_lobster

I've moved a tad over £12k in'n'out of my Zopa current account in multi-k chunks in the last week, all have been actioned instantly.

These fraud detecting algorithms are clearly sweet on me, I'm easily moving similar amounts around a dozen banks in all sorts of sizes of txns monthly, been halted maybe twice (from memory, first payment out of TSB and a 5-figure sum from RBS (who I've had a CA with for the last 40+ years).

BTB43

Thank you for all the helpful remarks. It seems that I should stick to my main bank account when paying people online. I have many years history with them and am unlikely to trigger the blasted algorythm there.
What I would like is for the banks to be clear with all of us up front what sort of scenarios will trigger these holdups so (in my case) I can use my main bank account.
I would also like to know what extra due diligence they are actually doing on the withheld money. They are happy to take it from your bank account and make interest from it in the interim. 
A further thought I've had is that if we're dealing with a new supplier, in future we need to get written evidence on paper from them about their bank account details before any work takes place. That's so their emailed invoice isn't intercepted and bank account details altered to a fraudulent one.

confederated

BTB43 said:

What I would like is for the banks to be clear with all of us up front what sort of scenarios will trigger these holdups so (in my case) I can use my main bank account.

They are absolutely not going to tell us that! It would alert scammers as to what they'd need to do to stay just under the radar. They won't even listen if you tell them in advance that you're going to make a particular purchase using your card. Their fraud algorithm is a modern version of 'computer says no'.

Each year I buy a new flagship phone using a credit card. Most times the transaction is blocked. When I phone them I remind them that I spend around £1K on a phone in August/September. The transaction still hits their fraud algorithm. There's nothing you can do. It is very irritating and you just know it's going to happen.

flaneurs_lobster

confederated said:

BTB43 said:

What I would like is for the banks to be clear with all of us up front what sort of scenarios will trigger these holdups so (in my case) I can use my main bank account.

They are absolutely not going to tell us that! It would alert scammers as to what they'd need to do to stay just under the radar. They won't even listen if you tell them in advance that you're going to make a particular purchase using your card. Their fraud algorithm is a modern version of 'computer says no'.

I do wonder if the regulator's crackdown in a couple of well-publicised cases where banks were fined £££ for less than diligent AML has led to (some) banks being rather trigger-happy with their sanctions. Would seem to me that one obvious metric to collect to show the regulator when he comes a-inspectoring is how many payments you've held up for further eyeballs.

Most people would probably agree that stopping money-laundering (or rather the crime that it facilitates) is a good thing. Until the AI/algorithms achieve perfect detection with no false positives the collateral damage will be !!!!!!-off builders getting paid late. 

sheramber

I had the Spanish Inquisition for an hour when paying an invoice that was passed to me personally by the workman when he finished the work.

I had banked with RBS for 51 years.  

eskbanker

sheramber said:

I had the Spanish Inquisition for an hour when paying an invoice that was passed to me personally by the workman when he finished the work.

I had banked with RBS for 51 years.  

So you weren't expecting that then?

friolento

sheramber said:

I had the Spanish Inquisition for an hour when paying an invoice that was passed to me personally by the workman when he finished the work.

I had banked with RBS for 51 years.  

How often in the preceding 51 years had you paid this particular workman? Was the payment amount unusual compared with your other one-off spending? Do you know what other payments arrive in the workman's account / what records the banks and credit agencies have about the workman?

Answers to these and some other questions might explain why your bank's fraud detection algorithms have kicked in. It's a bit of a nuisance when we get payments held up but these are minor inconveniences we have to endure from time to time, for the benefit of the lawful and reliable running of our banking system.

confederated

friolento said:

It's a bit of a nuisance when we get payments held up but these are minor inconveniences we have to endure from time to time, for the benefit of the lawful and reliable running of our banking system.

II disagree. It has happened to me with several banks, and usually you have no idea why a payment has been refused and what to do next. There is usually no communication from the bank and with many banks it is very difficult to get in touch to sort it out. In the past I might have expected a text along the lines of "was this you?", but now you get nothing. I was trying to pay for my dental treatment recently and tried card after card, all were refused. In the end, while standing in front of the busy receptionist, I had to transfer funds from my ISA account to my RBS current account so I could pay. That went through. I wanted the bill to go on one of my credit cards so I didn't have to dip into my savings for a few weeks. Not so.

Maybe a text requesting an agreed password to authorise the payment would constitute due diligence? Maybe that password could be changed on a regular basis?

friolento

confederated said:

friolento said:

It's a bit of a nuisance when we get payments held up but these are minor inconveniences we have to endure from time to time, for the benefit of the lawful and reliable running of our banking system.

II disagree. It has happened to me with several banks, and usually you have no idea why a payment has been refused and what to do next. There is usually no communication from the bank and with many banks it is very difficult to get in touch to sort it out. In the past I might have expected a text along the lines of "was this you?", but now you get nothing. I was trying to pay for my dental treatment recently and tried card after card, all were refused. In the end, while standing in front of the busy receptionist, I had to transfer funds from my ISA account to my RBS current account so I could pay. That went through. I wanted the bill to go on one of my credit cards so I didn't have to dip into my savings for a few weeks. Not so.

Maybe a text requesting an agreed password to authorise the payment would constitute due diligence? Maybe that password could be changed on a regular basis?

We weren't talking about card payments here, but payments made by bank transfer.

If you get card after card rejected, there must be a different issue.- though it could be as simple as an unusually high amount. We are quick to complain if card providers don't stop fraudulent use of cards, but also quick when they reject payments.