Intelligent Octopus Go limiting cheap charging.

pensionpawn

QrizB said:

Pre-order pricing on the Quasar 2 looks to be around $6k in the US. That's likely to become £6k in the UK (which is what the original Quasar cost).

If you're saving 15p/kWh by using V2H then you'll need to cycle 40000 kWh through the battery to cover the wallbox cost. I don't know how much electricity your household uses but that could be ten years or more? It's also like adding an additional 120k miles to the wear level of your battery.

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea, but the economics do need some consideration.

These are valid points, hence my previous comment about not making a move until the initial commercial launch premium prices have calmed down due to competition and demand. I fully appreciate the cost implications having already pointed out to my brother, who also bought his first EV on retirement, that on his massively reduced commute it will take him a year or two to recover the cost of the charger unit, let alone the EV itself price premium.
It's not a done deal at this moment in time!

MattMattMattUK

pensionpawn said:

QrizB said:

Pre-order pricing on the Quasar 2 looks to be around $6k in the US. That's likely to become £6k in the UK (which is what the original Quasar cost).

If you're saving 15p/kWh by using V2H then you'll need to cycle 40000 kWh through the battery to cover the wallbox cost. I don't know how much electricity your household uses but that could be ten years or more? It's also like adding an additional 120k miles to the wear level of your battery.

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea, but the economics do need some consideration.

These are valid points, hence my previous comment about not making a move until the initial commercial launch premium prices have calmed down due to competition and demand. I fully appreciate the cost implications having already pointed out to my brother, who also bought his first EV on retirement, that on his massively reduced commute it will take him a year or two to recover the cost of the charger unit, let alone the EV itself price premium.

I agree for your brother it might have not been cost efficient to buy an EV with very low mileage, but for most people it does. There is not really an EV price premium anymore, there initially appeared to be one because they went in at higher points in the market, but in general they are not that different to the price of ICE in lower mid and up segments and manufacturers such as BYD are proving that they do not need to be more expensive than ICE cars even lower down the stack. A second hand Tesla, Polestar or Leaf is comparable in price to a similarly sized and specified ICE car, but with the benefit of much lower running costs/TCO. I do around 11.5k per year, in my EV that costs me £250-300 in electricity (mostly home charging, the odd on the road Supercharger charge), in an ICE vehicle that would cost upwards of £2k. The full service including MOT and tyre rotation cost me £185, they even valeted the car for me as well. If one does very few miles and buys a new vehicle then an EV will be marginally more expensive than an ICE vehicle, but it adds up very quickly in overall operating costs and if buying second hand there is pretty much no premium anymore. 

pensionpawn said:

It's not a done deal at this moment in time!

I am not sure it will ever work on a purely economic basis for domestic energy, at least until we get a decent supply of sodium batteries which are ideal for static usage and should cost around a third of the cost of lithium chemistry batteries once the plants are up and running. When I buy a house in the a couple of years I will certainly be putting a battery in when the right model is available, largely because I do not expect the government (or successive ones) to get the grid and generation right and I think from 2030 onwards we will see growing issues with supply, as well as costs possibly increasing significantly. 

Qyburn

Presumably you also need G.99/G.100 permission for these two way chargers. 

WiserMiser

Have you factored in eVED?  It won't stay 3p/mile for long !

Much is being made about used EVs costing no more than ICEs, but that's just spin applied to heavy depreciation.  When it's time to sell or part exchange your EV it'll be almost worthless.

I'm not inherently anti-EV, I like the idea of smooth automatic driving with no tailpipe emissions, but IMO they're still in their infancy and government tax grabs mean they won't cost peanuts to run, that'll soon be history.

born_again

WiserMiser said:

Have you factored in eVED?  It won't stay 3p/mile for long !

Much is being made about used EVs costing no more than ICEs, but that's just spin applied to heavy depreciation.  When it's time to sell or part exchange your EV it'll be almost worthless.

I'm not inherently anti-EV, I like the idea of smooth automatic driving with no tailpipe emissions, but IMO they're still in their infancy and government tax grabs mean they won't cost peanuts to run, that'll soon be history.

Yet EV's going through auction from the lease co's are being sold at above CAP price, set by auction co's which is the guide price used by dealers.

MattMattMattUK

WiserMiser said:

Have you factored in eVED?  It won't stay 3p/mile for long !

It is currently around 1.8p per mile on fuel only, around 3p counting VED, but VED also applied to ICE vehicles so it impacts both equally.

WiserMiser said:

Much is being made about used EVs costing no more than ICEs, but that's just spin applied to heavy depreciation.  When it's time to sell or part exchange your EV it'll be almost worthless.

EVs do not depreciate and more than ICE vehicles, in many cases they depreciate less. You are demonstrating a very inaccurate understanding of depreciation.

WiserMiser said:

I'm not inherently anti-EV, I like the idea of smooth automatic driving with no tailpipe emissions, but IMO they're still in their infancy and government tax grabs mean they won't cost peanuts to run, that'll soon be history.

Your posts would appear otherwise. They are well past their infancy, they are a mature technology and whilst government tax increases will make them more expensive to run over time they will still be considerably cheaper per mile and TCO than ICE vehicles.

Tree_pipe99

MattMattMattUK said:

WiserMiser said:

Have you factored in eVED?  It won't stay 3p/mile for long !

It is currently around 1.8p per mile on fuel only, around 3p counting VED, but VED also applied to ICE vehicles so it impacts both equally.

WiserMiser said:

Much is being made about used EVs costing no more than ICEs, but that's just spin applied to heavy depreciation.  When it's time to sell or part exchange your EV it'll be almost worthless.

EVs do not depreciate and more than ICE vehicles, in many cases they depreciate less. You are demonstrating a very inaccurate understanding of depreciation.

WiserMiser said:

I'm not inherently anti-EV, I like the idea of smooth automatic driving with no tailpipe emissions, but IMO they're still in their infancy and government tax grabs mean they won't cost peanuts to run, that'll soon be history.

Your posts would appear otherwise. They are well past their infancy, they are a mature technology and whilst government tax increases will make them more expensive to run over time they will still be considerably cheaper per mile and TCO than ICE vehicles.

Factor in the 20% VAT added to fuel duty and its more like 8p per mile on petrol.

EVs do depreciate at a faster rate that ICE, but it's not huge.

pensionpawn

MattMattMattUK said:

pensionpawn said:

QrizB said:

Pre-order pricing on the Quasar 2 looks to be around $6k in the US. That's likely to become £6k in the UK (which is what the original Quasar cost).

If you're saving 15p/kWh by using V2H then you'll need to cycle 40000 kWh through the battery to cover the wallbox cost. I don't know how much electricity your household uses but that could be ten years or more? It's also like adding an additional 120k miles to the wear level of your battery.

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea, but the economics do need some consideration.

These are valid points, hence my previous comment about not making a move until the initial commercial launch premium prices have calmed down due to competition and demand. I fully appreciate the cost implications having already pointed out to my brother, who also bought his first EV on retirement, that on his massively reduced commute it will take him a year or two to recover the cost of the charger unit, let alone the EV itself price premium.

I agree for your brother it might have not been cost efficient to buy an EV with very low mileage, but for most people it does. There is not really an EV price premium anymore, there initially appeared to be one because they went in at higher points in the market, but in general they are not that different to the price of ICE in lower mid and up segments and manufacturers such as BYD are proving that they do not need to be more expensive than ICE cars even lower down the stack. A second hand Tesla, Polestar or Leaf is comparable in price to a similarly sized and specified ICE car, but with the benefit of much lower running costs/TCO. I do around 11.5k per year, in my EV that costs me £250-300 in electricity (mostly home charging, the odd on the road Supercharger charge), in an ICE vehicle that would cost upwards of £2k. The full service including MOT and tyre rotation cost me £185, they even valeted the car for me as well. If one does very few miles and buys a new vehicle then an EV will be marginally more expensive than an ICE vehicle, but it adds up very quickly in overall operating costs and if buying second hand there is pretty much no premium anymore. 

pensionpawn said:

It's not a done deal at this moment in time!

I am not sure it will ever work on a purely economic basis for domestic energy, at least until we get a decent supply of sodium batteries which are ideal for static usage and should cost around a third of the cost of lithium chemistry batteries once the plants are up and running. When I buy a house in the a couple of years I will certainly be putting a battery in when the right model is available, largely because I do not expect the government (or successive ones) to get the grid and generation right and I think from 2030 onwards we will see growing issues with supply, as well as costs possibly increasing significantly. 

Of course, the higher your annual mileage the more cost effective an EV is to drive, especially if you have solar panels, however as pointed out by others, the inevitable taxation (vehicle / "not buying fossil fuel" tax etc) of EVs will attenuate that incentive.
Not sure about your claim about the EV cost premium vanishing, as a quick glance at Kia's new vehicles listing shows the entry model of the EV5 (the equivalent electric model to their very popular Sportage) coming in at £39,295 compared to £28,710 for the entry level Sportage.
Also, a little off topic, and another area I've yet to research, is media commentary that EV's are more expensive to insure? I did check what the premium hike would be for changing out my current Sportage for a Kia EV6 GT (650bhp!) and it wasn't crazy. So the jury is still out on that one.

WiserMiser

MattMattMattUK said:

WiserMiser said:

Much is being made about used EVs costing no more than ICEs, but that's just spin applied to heavy depreciation.  When it's time to sell or part exchange your EV it'll be almost worthless.

EVs do not depreciate any more than ICE vehicles, in many cases they depreciate less. You are demonstrating a very inaccurate understanding of depreciation. 

The industry appears not to agree with you.

Glass’s June 2025 market update also revealed that in May 2025, the overall average depreciation at three years/36,000 miles across all fuel types was 49.3%.

The breakdown of average depreciation by fuel type was as follows:

• Petrol: 47.1%
• Diesel: 47.6%
• Hybrid electric vehicle (HEV): 44.2%
• EV: 61.1%

This data makes it clear that the average EV loses significantly more value than other car types during the first three years.

However, it’s important to note that as of June 2025, the average price for a medium-sized car was £26,875, but the average prices of an EV was around £46,000.

Source: https://www.webuyanycar.com/electric-cars/ev-depreciation/

MattMattMattUK said:

WiserMiser said:

I'm not inherently anti-EV, I like the idea of smooth automatic driving with no tailpipe emissions, but IMO they're still in their infancy and government tax grabs mean they won't cost peanuts to run, that'll soon be history.

Your posts would appear otherwise. They are well past their infancy, they are a mature technology and whilst government tax increases will make them more expensive to run over time they will still be considerably cheaper per mile and TCO than ICE vehicles.

Nope.  Admittedly I'm against BEVs because on average they're about £20k more expensive to buy and they suffer by far the greatest depreciation (see above).  But I drive a self-charging EV, which has the lowest depreciation ! 🤓

The recent announcement about the introduction of eVED is likely to cause a big slump in BEV and PHEV sales.

Tree_pipe99

Experts seem to say to keep depreciation of cars to a minimum in the UK, buy it at 3 years old and sell it at 5 years old. For any car type, depreciation is just a fact of owership.

https://www.motorpoint.co.uk/guides/electric-car-depreciation

When I was looking for my EV I found there were plenty of EVs at 2 or 3 years old that had price parity with the ICE equivalent. 

Yes brand new, EVs are still more expensive than ICE (for now).