Smart meter

Scot_39

1) Are you getting confused between gas (GDN) and electricity (DNO) distribution operators ?

If the offending metal plate is the responsibility of the GDN - as would be the incoming gas pipework to the home - then to move the meter you need your GDN - that some sites list only 4 of for whole of UK - and the 2 I checked that list didnt include National Grid (or rather NGED - the old Western Power)

However they are electricity DNO in some regions (Midlands, S Wales, DEvon and Cornwall ? on one site map ) so would be - of those sites upto date - as DNO - responsible for electricity cabling to incoming fuse and it's relocation etc.  They took over my DNO - WP - years ago.

2) New meter comms tech - Alt Han

But without that level of intervention - just supplier - I wonder if ALT-Han might be suitable.

Would Alt Han adaptor inside the house the other side of the wall to that external gas cabinet - within a few M if have suitable socket - pick up a weaker signal - and an Alt Han upgrade of the electric hub to match of course - be used to pick up the signals it would relay over the house wiring.

At least one user here has posted that solved his problems with gas meter signal too weak to reach electric hub - at other side of their house.

Shortfuse

Thank you Scot39. 

You are right, the terminology I should use is GDN as that is the meter cupboard they are suggesting I should move elsewhere.  I called the number I was given for them to attend to the wires but they did not want anything referred to them by British Gas.  

I think I get the Alt HAN explanation works.  There is a soil stack boxed in to the right hand corner of the cabinet and then a floor to ceiling shoe cupboard (a boxed in alcove) which has the consumer unit at the top. To the left outside is what used to be a bin cupboard but no longer used for that following the wheelie introduction. The electric meter is in there.  If my meter once worked and then stopped and if the gas meter sends its data to the electrical meter, I wonder if I have blocked the signal suddenly by placing something in one of the cupboards?

If it is not my storage that is blocking it, how would I go about trying the Alt HAN fix?

Scot_39

https://althanco.com/how-it-works/

Their are two versions of purely wireless comms hub communications.

Standard HAN - is pretty weak - it has a range in clear air in theory of 15m or so (figures on web vary) - but is sensitive to more solid blockages.

My IHD is approx 4-5m from my external (wall cavity) electricity meter and comms hub mounted on top - and the signal has to go through the inner leave of the wall (brick) - a coat cupboard with standard modern internal panel door - and another to the living room.  It looses comms occasionally (rare but repeats every so often) - opening one internal door usually brings it back - opening 2 always.  

So yes you could potentially block it if put something moderately solid or metal in the path if used to work.  Not sure if will spring back to life if clear any clutter.

There is a second wireless standard - dual band HAN as well - that extends the wireless range - but even that isnt enough for some houses. My friends electric was next to front door, his gas on sidewall behind attached garage - next to rear kitchen in a 3 bed moden - dual band didn't work either - he in end went back to dumb old style gas.  That needs a new gas meter and a new comms hub - some suppliers will replace both electricity meter and hub as a pair.

And then - there is the alt-HAN - that works like a wired ethernet or wifi "powerline" extender - but for HAN (Zigbee HAN iirc) comms.  It uses the home wiring to cover the distance from meter to near location of ihd and potentially gas meter too.

That can be just 2 modules - a B1 / B2 as referred to below for the Landis+Gyr kit. AS shown Slightly further down on this Ovo forum example.  Which was the simple solution I thought might work.

But doing some googling - theres another stage beyond my suggestion above - using a different comms standard to reach a remote or external gas meter - when the HAN B2 adaptor cannot reach it (and IHD).

An alternative to there B2 - B3 - that supports normal Zigbee HAN and a more robust link - that changes comms to/from say an external gas meter - from HAN to LRR - long range radio (havent looked for specs etc) - as picture in this example from the Ovo forum - and a B4 unit is placed at the gas meter end to convert its HAN to/from LRR.

https://forum.ovoenergy.com/smart-meters-136/alt-han-resumed-you-can-order-it-20036

 

The B4 unit is I believe battery powered - no wiring needed - and in this example sitting on a kind of similar plate to yours in that picture.

So B1 is HAN to powerline at meter end

B2 is powerline to more local HAN to ihd / gas where suited

And as an alternative the first Ovo piccies

B3 is powerline to local HAN say for IHD - and LRR to remote LRR adaptor at gas meter

B4 is HAN to LRR adaptor at gas meter 

Shortfuse

Thank you for the information. I will need to study that a bit longer to understand it and come back to you if that is ok.  I think I may need to know more from then if that is ok

Shortfuse

Thank you I have read your notes and if I am right, you run the power from a socket to te site next to the electric meter.  The device on the gas meter to boost the signal is battery and not mains.  The B4 is plugged to the mains near to the site of the meter.

The gas meter above is to the right.  The electric meter is in the tall cupboard to the left of it at the height of the top of the door.  The consumer unit is behind the gas unit at the height of the lamp.  The lamp has its own power cable going to it from the other side of the wall from the consumer unit.  

The area between the gas meter has a plywood partition and the back is where the alcc meter in the tall cupboard on the left as the consumer unit only has a plywood partition and is only maximum 4ft away.  It is feasible also for a power socket to be put in the area near the consumer unit which is where the lamp is.  Currently the top shelf of the filled in alcove behind the meter cupboard is the consumer unit and vase storage so that would work.  Have I understood it correctly?

I have found out who my GDN is, it is Southern Gas.  Southern Gas was the provider for my city prior to privatisation and I am assuming that is still state owned.  I have found a customer contact form and they have replied to say it is easy to re-site the gas meter and that was lovely to find that out so thank you for that.  If it is easy for them to do, it may be worthwhile moving the gas meter to the cupboard on the left where the electric meter is.  I am guessing they would run an external pipe along to it and then in to it.  The criteria in our new city when it was built was that bins and meters re accessible from outside the house and so that would remain compliant.

Thank you for your help and it has been really useful.  I have looked at those cupboards and doors in an entirely different way and it feels that I may be on the path to a solution.