A Shade Greener ongoing issue

fedupdotcom1

My late mother’s property was put into trust after her passing and my son lives there as per her wishes. He has tried for years to get access to the account on a shade greener but they have never given him access. So we have never been able to monitor the account and electricity generated. He has now switched energy supplier and his bills for electricity is around £400 a month he has questioned this with his supplier due to the amount. They have requested information about the solar panels which he doesn’t have and a shade greener want a ridiculous amount of money to provide him with what has been requested. He has explained that the contract isn’t with him and he wasn’t provided with the documents and it appears neither was my mother. We are concerned that he is being charged for the electricity generated by the panels as he uses basic appliances. He has threatened to turn the panels off if they don’t provide him with the needed information. Which obviously didn’t go down well. Can anyone offer any advice to help us please. 

Thank you xx

QrizB

I'm not sure quite what you're looking for, here.

fedupdotcom1 said:

My late mother’s property was put into trust after her passing and my son lives there as per her wishes. He has tried for years to get access to the account on a shade greener but they have never given him access. So we have never been able to monitor the account and electricity generated. 

A Shade Greener are a rent-a-roof scheme. Your mother agreed that ASG could install solar panels on her roof, for no charge; in exchange she (and now your brother) can use the electricity they generate, at no charge.

There isn't usually any account to access or any way for the homeowner to monitor generation, short of the homeowner themselves reading the generation meter periodically.

fedupdotcom1 said:

They have requested information about the solar panels which he doesn’t have and a shade greener want a ridiculous amount of money to provide him with what has been requested.

"A ridiculous amount of money" makes me think that your brother has asked ASG to sell him the panels and transfer the FIT to him. This could cost £10k or more.

fedupdotcom1 said:

He has now switched energy supplier and his bills for electricity is around £400 a month he has questioned this with his supplier due to the amount. 

If your brother's electricity bill is £400 a month, and is based on actual readings rather than estimates, he should start a thread over on the main "Energy" board of the MSE Forum where he can get advice.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/energy

fedupdotcom1 said:

He has explained that the contract isn’t with him and he wasn’t provided with the documents and it appears neither was my mother. 

The contract is with the property owner; who are the trustees of the trust that holds the property?

fedupdotcom1 said:

We are concerned that he is being charged for the electricity generated by the panels 

That's not possible.

fedupdotcom1 said:

... as he uses basic appliances. 

A plugin electric heater, by itself, could use £400 of electricity in a month. This is the sort of info that he will need to share over on the Energy forum.

fedupdotcom1 said:

He has threatened to turn the panels off if they don’t provide him with the needed information. Which obviously didn’t go down well.

That would leave him open to a large bill from ASG. Potentially in excess of £1000.

fedupdotcom1 said:

Can anyone offer any advice to help us please. 

Hopefully this reply will be useful.

fedupdotcom1

My mother had a app /  account she could log into which showed her how much the panels were producing and what her usage was, this isn’t something they are allowing my son to access, the information he has requested are the certificates for the panels as requested by his new energy supplier apparently this will show the rate of electricity that the panels generate, they are requesting each document at around £200. He has minimal appliances such as tv, washer and refrigerator where as myself living with my husband and 2 adult children run much more costing £100 per month tho his £400 with solar panels with no heater or other expensive appliances. It just doesn’t seem right somehow. 

But thank you xx

QrizB

fedupdotcom1 said:

My mother had a app /  account she could log into which showed her how much the panels were producing and what her usage was, this isn’t something they are allowing my son to access

Who are "they"? A Shade Greener?

fedupdotcom1 said:

the information he has requested are the certificates for the panels as requested by his new energy supplier

Why does his new energy supplier want/need to know anything about ASG's solar panels? The supplier has no interest in them.

fedupdotcom1 said:

they are requesting each document at around £200. 

Your brother might be able to get a copy of his MCS Certificate direct from the MCS:

https://mcscertified.com/consumers/mcs-certificate-queries/

It's possible that they will only issue one to the propety owner, which will mean the trustees. Who are the trustees?

fedupdotcom1 said:

He has minimal appliances such as tv, washer and refrigerator where as myself living with my husband and 2 adult children run much more costing £100 per month tho his £400 with solar panels with no heater or other expensive appliances. It just doesn’t seem right somehow. 

£400 a month for electricity is a lot, agreed.
If he can start a thread over on Energy, we an help him undestand his bills and work out where all the electricity is going.

Do be aware that solar panels only generate electricity when the sun is shining! Even in the best situaton, rooftop solar (without a storage battery) will only replace about 1/3rd of a household's electricity use.

QrizB

Just to add - if you can tell us when the solar panels were installed, and share a photo of them on the roof, we can probably give you a decent guess of their capacity. That would avoid having to contact ASG or MCS.

If you can also tell us which direction they face and what part of the country they are in (which county, or the nearest large town/city) we can also help you work out how much electricity they will be generating in a typical year.

fedupdotcom1

Yes A shade Greener had an app so she could see all of the information.
His new energy supplier need the information to adjust his account I believe and confirm instillation.
i will try and find out the additional information and update my post. 

Thank you xx

Martyn1981

fedupdotcom1 said:

My late mother’s property was put into trust after her passing and my son lives there as per her wishes. He has tried for years to get access to the account on a shade greener but they have never given him access. So we have never been able to monitor the account and electricity generated. He has now switched energy supplier and his bills for electricity is around £400 a month he has questioned this with his supplier due to the amount. They have requested information about the solar panels which he doesn’t have and a shade greener want a ridiculous amount of money to provide him with what has been requested. He has explained that the contract isn’t with him and he wasn’t provided with the documents and it appears neither was my mother. We are concerned that he is being charged for the electricity generated by the panels as he uses basic appliances. He has threatened to turn the panels off if they don’t provide him with the needed information. Which obviously didn’t go down well. Can anyone offer any advice to help us please. 

Thank you xx

Just to say that it's unlikely that you are being charged for export, but it was an issue going back 10-15yrs in a very specific situation for a tiny number of installs. I'll copy the relevant part from the (now old and outdated) PV FAQ's.

4a Meters reading export as import:

Though rare, some people have found that their import meter may be reading the excess electricity that is being generated and exported to the network as if it is being imported.

This appears to be a known 'fault' with some Siemens meters (possibly S2AS) that have an 'anti-tamper' programme. All the exported units are supposed to be available from an internal register - though you may have difficulty in finding an operator who understands the situation. Your REC's solar energy helpline might be able to help.

Old thread:

Siemans S2A meter - I think there maybe a problem

But to be clear, this is a very, very long shot, especially as meters get replaced over time, and a smart meter may now have been installed. If the leccy bill is higher during the sunnier months, when PV generation is higher, then that might be a good clue.

But £400pm sounds incredible, unless it includes space heating, or perhaps reaches £400 some months, again with space heating? 

QrizB

fedupdotcom1 said:

Yes A shade Greener had an app so she could see all of the information.

That's somewhat puzzling.

A Shade Greener shouldn't have any access at all to your mother's electricity usage information. All they know is how much their solar panels are generating.

Unless they installed something in your mother's house that lets them measure import? But that would be unusual and possibly irregular.

Qyburn

QrizB said:

Just to add - if you can tell us when the solar panels were installed, and share a photo of them on the roof, we can probably give you a decent guess of their capacity. 

From memory, weren't FIT installations limited to 4kWp?

Martyn1981

Qyburn said:

QrizB said:

Just to add - if you can tell us when the solar panels were installed, and share a photo of them on the roof, we can probably give you a decent guess of their capacity. 

From memory, weren't FIT installations limited to 4kWp?

Yes and no. There was an upto 4kWp rate, and a 4-10kWp rate. But it was a cliff edge scheme, so if you installed 4.5kWp (for example) you got the lower rate on the whole install. So it wasn't worth going bigger unless you went over ~5kWp to make up for the rate reduction.

Also, lower panel efficiency (back then) and roof space tended to max out around 4kWp, and things were far less clear about exceeding 3.68kW with the DNO's. So all told, 4kWp became the de facto target.

In my case, I got a 3.58kWp install, as that was all I could get on my ESE roofs. Then a year later added a 2kWp system on the WNW roof. The whole of the 2kWp system got the 4-10kWp reduced rate (and on a lower FiT rate at that time), but the old system was unaffected.

Heedtheadvice

There are obviously several things going on most of which have been already mentioned.

I presume and suggest the following situation could well apply:-

If your son does not now own the property ; ASG had a contract with your mother, they should have been involved with the estate administration at the outset to inform them of your mum passing (as the old contract would have required updating ) as should have been dealt with by the Executor(s) and the propety then subsequently becoming  owned by the Trust. The trustees being the legal owners and it it them that ASG will deal with legally. It probably makes no difference to them that your son is a Beneficiary ie not being the legal owner.

If the above is true ( and there are no other arrangements) the fact that there are solar panels/ contract should not come into consideration for your sons electricity account except that he will likely benefit from a bit of free electricity. There will no doubt be other contractual responsibilities on both ASG and the Trustee(s)

On the practical side, as resident of the property your son is able to get and is then responsible for the electricity supply account . If a supplier, as they should, takes into account the free power he uses from the solar panels then they need info to estimate it's worth. The trustee(s) should be able to get that info (as could your mum ) from ASG if they have that data and pass it to your son for the estimation purposes. Note it will probably not be the same as what you mum had as there are different practical circumstances of usage, but good enough for an initial estimate I suggest.

As has been mentioned above £400 pcm for electricity is a lot. The assumption being he is heating by another method. That £400 equates to about 50kWh ( units)  per day or 350 per week. That could easily be checked on the supply meter ( not the solar generation meter ) as it clocks up. If it is the case then further investigation needs to be done to find out why there is high consumption or if there is  a meter error or display reading error.

Typically Water ( immersion) heating  might reasonably account for five units per day, other appliances etc 4 per day. 10 per day could be  reasonable figure ( typical for a year could be 2000 kWh given an assumed lower use in summer and higher solar output. Heating would be more in the order of 10,000kWh and be more like the cost you mentioned. )

 Other factors to consider are cooking? lots of washing?, tumble drier etc ? 

 Or is there a payment deficit that is now being paid for?

Note these are not definite figures but good enough as a starting point for investigation.

My suggestion is that there are two different aspects to sort out: the ASG contractual side and the suppply/ consumption use.