Bringing back body of deceased without using a firm

tooldle

POA - Price on application? Kind of makes sense as circumstances will differ from case to case.

JGB1955

elsien said:

NotArobot24 said:

silvercar said:

If finances mean you need to compromise, use a proper funeral director to bring the body to the UK and conduct your own funeral.

They have paid for a plot, all that is approved, their other half already 12 feet under years ago, they will go at 6 feet under on same plot.

I like the DIY stuff for when I pass but mainly for the bundling and overcharging.

This death has really shaken me, my late mother had an amazing ceremony, so I had an idea to do one on a similar vein for myself, perhaps record some videos on hidden YouTube links where I address family members, play some of my favourite songs, I can make several playlists and they can say their bits in between.

For my mother they arranged a post ceremony event at a local hotel and that was done directly, they had flowers done with a local Florist where people could choose to buy suggested things or come up with custom ones.

One thing I learnt from an in-laws ceremony was how awful it is to have the cremation done in the same building and same time as the ceremony.  We had the ceremony then the coffin was left for anyone to have final moments and then it was taken to the hearse once most people had left, it was taken to another side of the building and one of my siblings collected the ashes.

I have found companies that quote prices for a death in the UK for repatriation to EU for £2k but every company I have found just say POA, by now they should have done every EU country and figured out a formula, so much per mile, so much for regulations in France, Germany, Italy and so on.  It is an emotive time and we are going through the stages of bereavement, I recognise that, but at the same time none of us wants to be exploited as it insults the deceased and us all.

What does that mean?  Most people who use the acronym POA mean power of attorney,  which is of no relevance at all in this situation because it ends on someone’s death.

I would have thought it would be far more insulting to the deceased to be plunged into a body bag or a wheelchair surrounded by ice and on a wing and  a prayer 

Price on application

silvercar

POA= price on application in this instance.

Having known of two people who died unexpectedly abroad, I can say that the authority in the country of death makes a decision on releasing the body and the UK makes their own decision on whether a post mortem is needed on arrival of the body in the UK. The UK coroner also decides whether they are satisfied with the post mortem provided abroad.

NotArobot24 said:

silvercar said:

NotArobot24 said:

GDB2222 said:

Undoubtedly, by far the cheapest way to deal with this is to sit gran's body up in the back seat of the car, strapped in with a safety belt. When customs ask about her, say "shhh don't wake her". Do you at least have an up to date passport for her?

I missed your post and never even thought of that, yes they have passport and we would not need to try to get someone on a plane as per that BBC story.

So family get all the paperwork done in foreign country and the embalming etc.

Then drive through passport control on Eurotunnel, in the past have opened sliding door of MPV when passing through, if they get caught they can express shock that they have died and they did not notice.

 Jumped into a body bag, zipped it up, laid straight, then died. All without the driver noticing. Explain that one away, particularly when the coroner insists on a post mortem and the time of death is revealed to be days ago. 

That idea has passed, if we go down "sleeping" route then I am thinking they travel in their wheelchair in back of MPV. it is more credible.

I am exploring having three different funeral directors or maybe two.

Once you have a death certificate, the sleeping route has zero credibility. In any case, I don’t think you can physically manoeuvre a body from a flat position to a sitting position then back to a flat position without breaking a few bones at the very least.

The advantage of flying the body rather than land transport is it limits the number of countries you need to cross.
Plus, on arrival in the UK there is a mortuary at Heathrow (and probably elsewhere) whereas I doubt there is one at ferry terminals. 

Also, mortuaries are cold for a reason, if you are transporting in a car, either the car is going to be so chilled the journey will be uncomfortable or you will have other problems with the body.

Have you discussed this with other family members?

Grumpy_chap

NotArobot24 said:

No scrub all that, just strap them in.

Once in the UK they go to UK Funeral Director as normal

Border Control will not longer be involved at that point.

Assuming that worked for the transport from point of origin to the UK Funeral Director (which I can't endorse that it would actually work), what questions will the UK Funeral Director ask when you drive up to the door with a deceased?

sheramber

elsien said:

NotArobot24 said:

silvercar said:

If finances mean you need to compromise, use a proper funeral director to bring the body to the UK and conduct your own funeral.

They have paid for a plot, all that is approved, their other half already 12 feet under years ago, they will go at 6 feet under on same plot.

I like the DIY stuff for when I pass but mainly for the bundling and overcharging.

This death has really shaken me, my late mother had an amazing ceremony, so I had an idea to do one on a similar vein for myself, perhaps record some videos on hidden YouTube links where I address family members, play some of my favourite songs, I can make several playlists and they can say their bits in between.

For my mother they arranged a post ceremony event at a local hotel and that was done directly, they had flowers done with a local Florist where people could choose to buy suggested things or come up with custom ones.

One thing I learnt from an in-laws ceremony was how awful it is to have the cremation done in the same building and same time as the ceremony.  We had the ceremony then the coffin was left for anyone to have final moments and then it was taken to the hearse once most people had left, it was taken to another side of the building and one of my siblings collected the ashes.

I have found companies that quote prices for a death in the UK for repatriation to EU for £2k but every company I have found just say POA, by now they should have done every EU country and figured out a formula, so much per mile, so much for regulations in France, Germany, Italy and so on.  It is an emotive time and we are going through the stages of bereavement, I recognise that, but at the same time none of us wants to be exploited as it insults the deceased and us all.

What does that mean?  Most people who use the acronym POA mean power of attorney,  which is of no relevance at all in this situation because it ends on someone’s death.

I would have thought it would be far more insulting to the deceased to be plunged into a body bag or a wheelchair surrounded by ice and on a wing and  a prayer 

POA - price on application.

GDB2222

silvercar said:

POA= price on application in this instance.

Having known of two people who died unexpectedly abroad, I can say that the authority in the country of death makes a decision on releasing the body and the UK makes their own decision on whether a post mortem is needed on arrival of the body in the UK. The UK coroner also decides whether they are satisfied with the post mortem provided abroad.

NotArobot24 said:

silvercar said:

NotArobot24 said:

GDB2222 said:

Undoubtedly, by far the cheapest way to deal with this is to sit gran's body up in the back seat of the car, strapped in with a safety belt. When customs ask about her, say "shhh don't wake her". Do you at least have an up to date passport for her?

I missed your post and never even thought of that, yes they have passport and we would not need to try to get someone on a plane as per that BBC story.

So family get all the paperwork done in foreign country and the embalming etc.

Then drive through passport control on Eurotunnel, in the past have opened sliding door of MPV when passing through, if they get caught they can express shock that they have died and they did not notice.

 Jumped into a body bag, zipped it up, laid straight, then died. All without the driver noticing. Explain that one away, particularly when the coroner insists on a post mortem and the time of death is revealed to be days ago. 

That idea has passed, if we go down "sleeping" route then I am thinking they travel in their wheelchair in back of MPV. it is more credible.

I am exploring having three different funeral directors or maybe two.

Once you have a death certificate, the sleeping route has zero credibility. In any case, I don’t think you can physically manoeuvre a body from a flat position to a sitting position then back to a flat position without breaking a few bones at the very least.

The advantage of flying the body rather than land transport is it limits the number of countries you need to cross.
Plus, on arrival in the UK there is a mortuary at Heathrow (and probably elsewhere) whereas I doubt there is one at ferry terminals. 

Also, mortuaries are cold for a reason, if you are transporting in a car, either the car is going to be so chilled the journey will be uncomfortable or you will have other problems with the body.

Have you discussed this with other family members?

BIB:  Rigor mortis disappears a day or two after death, depending on the temperature of the body. 

poppystar

NotArobot24 said:

GDB2222 said:

Undoubtedly, by far the cheapest way to deal with this is to sit gran's body up in the back seat of the car, strapped in with a safety belt. When customs ask about her, say "shhh don't wake her". Do you at least have an up to date passport for her?

I missed your post and never even thought of that, yes they have passport and we would not need to try to get someone on a plane as per that BBC story.

So family get all the paperwork done in foreign country and the embalming etc.

Then drive through passport control on Eurotunnel, in the past have opened sliding door of MPV when passing through, if they get caught they can express shock that they have died and they did not notice.

They did not notice and yet the body is embalmed ??

Savvy_Sue

Savvy_Sue said:

Savvy_Sue said:

I have memories of an item on Radio 4, possibly on Saturday Live, but so many years ago ... of a lady who took her mum's body on a road trip around the UK in a camper van, visiting mum's favourite spots.

I believe she checked beforehand and was breaking no laws. A coffin was involved, but I don't recall more than that.

However, I stress that this was a UK road trip and no borders were crossed.

I think this is it.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ellee-seymour/diy-funerals-wendii-and-her-mother_b_1533567.html

And I was wrong, no coffin.

It was however only 3 days, in our climate.

From my reading of this item I found earlier, you might be able to dispense with professional services once the body reaches the UK, legally if not practically.

However I noted that this burial took place on private land, with the appropriate permissions, and it may be harder to arrange a burial in a regular cemetery.

mybestattempt

Given this is a public forum, it may well be that UK Border Force and Customs (who in turn may liaise with the appropriate French authorities) are already alert to the possibility that someone may attempt to transport a dead body (in a body bag or otherwise) by car/MPV from France to the UK by Eurotunnel in the near future.

NotArobot24

elsien said:

NotArobot24 said:

silvercar said:

If finances mean you need to compromise, use a proper funeral director to bring the body to the UK and conduct your own funeral.

They have paid for a plot, all that is approved, their other half already 12 feet under years ago, they will go at 6 feet under on same plot.

I like the DIY stuff for when I pass but mainly for the bundling and overcharging.

This death has really shaken me, my late mother had an amazing ceremony, so I had an idea to do one on a similar vein for myself, perhaps record some videos on hidden YouTube links where I address family members, play some of my favourite songs, I can make several playlists and they can say their bits in between.

For my mother they arranged a post ceremony event at a local hotel and that was done directly, they had flowers done with a local Florist where people could choose to buy suggested things or come up with custom ones.

One thing I learnt from an in-laws ceremony was how awful it is to have the cremation done in the same building and same time as the ceremony.  We had the ceremony then the coffin was left for anyone to have final moments and then it was taken to the hearse once most people had left, it was taken to another side of the building and one of my siblings collected the ashes.

I have found companies that quote prices for a death in the UK for repatriation to EU for £2k but every company I have found just say POA, by now they should have done every EU country and figured out a formula, so much per mile, so much for regulations in France, Germany, Italy and so on.  It is an emotive time and we are going through the stages of bereavement, I recognise that, but at the same time none of us wants to be exploited as it insults the deceased and us all.

What does that mean?  Most people who use the acronym POA mean power of attorney,  which is of no relevance at all in this situation because it ends on someone’s death.

I would have thought it would be far more insulting to the deceased to be plunged into a body bag or a wheelchair surrounded by ice and on a wing and  a prayer 

elsien said:

The mention of ice is the final straw with taking this entirely seriously. 

Hey I thought you were out and not taking this entirely seriously?

I know it may be strange, but sometimes in life TLA's (three letter acronyms) have different meaning for different sectors, demographics etc.  I know that I have to google even words that some of our descendants use, even when they are taken into the Oxford dictionary. 

So in this case POA means Price On Application, i.e. we want to see how much you are grieving before we exploit that grief and make you pay way over the odds.

The ice has gone, the party bag comment gave me a moment of laughter in this sad time, ironically, I think they would be laughing at all the hassle they have caused and seeing us all run around like headless chickens. 

I think the wheelchair is just a nice touch for Border Control.
 
Perhaps the real issue is that they could not get insurance, they were not expected to die, I certainly thought they had another 20 years in them, but they had some medical complications not related to their death that prevented insurance being anywhere near affordable, it was thousands.