Bringing back body of deceased without using a firm

Mands

Grumpy_chap said:

With regard to the repatriation, another poster mentioned upthread whether that might be covered under any travel insurance that the deceased may have had in place and I cannot see that the OP has commented in that regard.

Or, if they lived in the country in which they died there are often medical insurance requirements as a part of the residency process. I was required to provide insurance documentation including "the repatriation of mortal remains" (which is the technical term for what we are discussing here) before I was granted legal residency. 

I live in a country where there are no crematoriums. Yet many who live here prefer cremation to burial. My funeral directors are one of only two in the country who provide cremation services. They fly the body, accompanied by a funeral director, to another country and oversee the cremation then fly back with the ashes. Only two funeral directors offer the service because the paperwork, legal requirements and bureaucracy are so complex and onerous the others will not take on the work. 

TonyMMM

If you are successful in getting the body back to the UK, you will still need to speak to coroner & registrar in your district to get the necessary permissions for burial/cremation

NotArobot24

tooldle said:

NotArobot24 said:

poppystar said:

There is a reason why funeral companies charge a significant amount for repatriation of bodies - that reason is dignity. 

There is no dignity in taking advantage of people suffering grief.

To me they are one of the worst forms of scum to exploit people in these circumstances.

You talk about dignity, well you have obviously not seen the documentaries that show how bodies are treated behind closed doors.

There is a clearly a reason why the DIY option came about, it is called RIP OFF BRITAIN

https://www.goodfuneralguide.co.uk/do-it-all-yourself/

There is a Crematorium near me that breaks down the services, they charge the best part of £4000 for a basic "service", this basic service was £700 just a few years ago, but now they just joined the bandwagon of ripping everyone off.

I attended a very nice service recently, it did not last long, family members doing all the work, youtube videos were playing in the background, a few things read, coffin taken out.  £12k not including flowers, not including hearse.  There was no staff used. 

Dignity !?!?

Are you certain that there is the option to DIY in your specific circumstances?
 On the face of it your plan as stands sounds disastrous. It is undoubtedly a difficult time for you and your family but sometimes situations necessitate someone to step back and say ‘let’s save ourselves the stress and remove the potential for the body to be seized and the driver arrested. Let those who know what they are doing crack on with things’.

Edited to add: if you are determined to go ahead, why not telephone the relevant Coroner’s Office or the Funeral Director in France, and seek their advice as to the process?

We do not have the absolutely obscene prices being asked for, it does not cost tens of thousands to bring back equivalent "cargo" even if it went by freight.

I doubt it will be confiscated because they will not have the appropriate cold storage at customs.  they can turn them away but they can remove the body from the vehicle and carry on.

If the paperwork is in order, a death certificate from the country they died in, a notorised translation of that document is all that is mentioned. The only requirement for zinc line coffins seems to be with airlines.

Undoing a coffin is emotionally emotive but a zip through body bag is something that can be used.  I have suggested they buy a load of ice in Calais.

Hell it may be cheaper to buy a space on those illegal boat crossings!.

NotArobot24

Daniel54 said:

You appear to be quoting invented numbers to justify your view point

i looked up the crematorium fees in my area of outer London and on average they are £ 1,800 for a midweek,midday service of 60  minutes.

I last helped to organize a funeral two years ago.We paid an excellent funeral director around £3.5k -£4k  ,including 3 staff and transport from the church to  the crematorium ,which I think  included crematorium fees .This was in south west  london,not a notoriously cheap area of the country.We ( the estate) paid for additions such as flowers and a wake.

Total cost was less then £ 9,000 including food and drink for over 70 attendees.This was in accordance with the wishes of the departed.

You should seek better quotes than you have received for repatriation, if the best you can find is £25k

Meanwhile,UK government guidance should I suggest be followed in the event of death overseas.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/what-to-do-after-a-british-national-dies-abroad

Daniel

Please do not accuse people of things you cannot back up with EVIDENCE, I looked up local crematorium and I looked up services local to the Cemetery where they will finally be laid to rest.  I also quoted the service that my late mother had, so please do not make disgusting assertions.

Family paid for her to be in a care home for 3 years, £6900 a month for first one which was taken over, all staff sacked and replaced for agency, then lower floor reserved for NHS overflow at £15k per patient per month.  Soon the whole place was used for NHS overflow, that is what happens when a hedge fund takes over a care home because of way expansion was funded.  Second care home boasted no staff on minimum pay to justify their £8500 a month fees, staff refused to put up bed safety bars and left her on floor for an hour when she fell out of bed.

I did look up the guidance (not law) you provided, if necessary we can form a company for £80 but I believe it is just listed for convenience

Disclaimer

The FCDO provides lists of service providers for information only, to assist British nationals who may need support overseas. This list is not exhaustive, and is subject to change at any time. None of the service providers are endorsed or recommended by the FCDO. You should research whether a service provider will be suitable. The FCDO does not accept any liability arising to any person for any loss or damage suffered through using these service providers or this information.

elsien

The mention of ice is the final straw with taking this entirely seriously. 

tooldle

NotArobot24 said:

tooldle said:

NotArobot24 said:

poppystar said:

There is a reason why funeral companies charge a significant amount for repatriation of bodies - that reason is dignity. 

There is no dignity in taking advantage of people suffering grief.

To me they are one of the worst forms of scum to exploit people in these circumstances.

You talk about dignity, well you have obviously not seen the documentaries that show how bodies are treated behind closed doors.

There is a clearly a reason why the DIY option came about, it is called RIP OFF BRITAIN

https://www.goodfuneralguide.co.uk/do-it-all-yourself/

There is a Crematorium near me that breaks down the services, they charge the best part of £4000 for a basic "service", this basic service was £700 just a few years ago, but now they just joined the bandwagon of ripping everyone off.

I attended a very nice service recently, it did not last long, family members doing all the work, youtube videos were playing in the background, a few things read, coffin taken out.  £12k not including flowers, not including hearse.  There was no staff used. 

Dignity !?!?

Are you certain that there is the option to DIY in your specific circumstances?
 On the face of it your plan as stands sounds disastrous. It is undoubtedly a difficult time for you and your family but sometimes situations necessitate someone to step back and say ‘let’s save ourselves the stress and remove the potential for the body to be seized and the driver arrested. Let those who know what they are doing crack on with things’.

Edited to add: if you are determined to go ahead, why not telephone the relevant Coroner’s Office or the Funeral Director in France, and seek their advice as to the process?

We do not have the absolutely obscene prices being asked for, it does not cost tens of thousands to bring back equivalent "cargo" even if it went by freight.

I doubt it will be confiscated because they will not have the appropriate cold storage at customs.  they can turn them away but they can remove the body from the vehicle and carry on.

If the paperwork is in order, a death certificate from the country they died in, a notorised translation of that document is all that is mentioned. The only requirement for zinc line coffins seems to be with airlines.

Undoing a coffin is emotionally emotive but a zip through body bag is something that can be used.  I have suggested they buy a load of ice in Calais.

Hell it may be cheaper to buy a space on those illegal boat crossings!.

What would you consider ‘equivalent cargo’? 

The cost of repatriation and funeral, is an expense for the estate to cover. Does you deceased relative have the funds? If not, why not? 

I am starting to doubt the authenticity of this thread.

NotArobot24

TonyMMM said:

If you are successful in getting the body back to the UK, you will still need to speak to coroner & registrar in your district to get the necessary permissions for burial/cremation

Absolutely, the Registrar will need the Death Certificate, I gather that the Coroner will not be involved as the death was natural causes (as specified on the Death Certificate).

I have started a Word Doc on all the things .Gov says need to be done, things that notify all etc, there seems to be some duplication there.

NotArobot24

tooldle said:

What would you consider ‘equivalent cargo’?

Cheese, Salt, Wine, Whatever, I totally get the need for zinc lined if going on a plane due to other cargo, but I do not accept the total price and all the upsells that are not options.

The cost of repatriation and funeral, is an expense for the estate to cover. Does you deceased relative have the funds? If not, why not

Nobody has funds, why do any people not have funds, what a bizarre question 

I gather some might be able to ask .Gov for money but I am not clear if this is a loan, whether it is made on the finances of the family member organising it or the whole family or the deceased.

Not sure whether the Estate is a factor or even if the Estate has any value, I gather there are debts but I am not sure if they are time limited.

I am trying not to get dragged into this mess, but there is a lot of upset as you would expect at this time.

I am starting to doubt the authenticity of this thread.

How nice of you.

NotArobot24

elsien said:

The mention of ice is the final straw with taking this entirely seriously. 

I only mentioned ice because the body is going to travel across EU, probably two countries, it is currently frozen or chilled at morgue.

I thought ice might help keep the body cold and if there is a prolonged delay/dispute at the border then one would want to keep things cold to avoid smells surely.

GDB2222

Undoubtedly, by far the cheapest way to deal with this is to sit gran's body up in the back seat of the car, strapped in with a safety belt. When customs ask about her, say "shhh don't wake her". Do you at least have an up to date passport for her?