Die with Zero by Bill Perkins

Moonwolf

eastcorkram said:

Linton said:

We enjoy our canal narrowboat very much, spending about 2 months a year or more cruising at 3mph through great countryside with free parking in interesting towns and villages. Plenty of wildlife,  Larger and more comfortable than a camper van, facilities include diesel central heating and a smokeless fuel stove, double glazing and good insulation,  full size gas oven and hob, flush toilet, full size fridge etc

The thought of spending one’s holidays parked  in a muddy field after a days stressful drive down a busy motorway does not appeal.

I'm with you on that. It's great we all like different things though. 

I think if I won a top of the range motorhome, and they delivered it to my house, I'd immediately put it up for sale, at a really good price,  just to get rid of it asap. I wouldn't even bother looking inside it. The concept of a camper van or motorhome seems like a nightmare. 

I’m definitely in the not in the campsite camp.

On my list of luxuries are warm shower, legroom and meals cooked for me.

Last time I did the Yorkshire Three Peaks I stayed in a pub hotel the night before and last time I toured Northumberland it was Air BnBs and small hotels. You can get quite a lot of those for the price of a camper van.

Ibrahim5

We are very committed caravanners. Same accomodation as a motorhome but the costs are so much less. We paid £5K for our caravan 20 years ago. Very few ongoing costs. A couple of tyres every 6 years. £100. Occasional brake shoe or wheel bearing. Don't insure it. Normally use it for longer holidays. Would still use a hotel for one night stays. We always used to cook in the caravan but now normally eat out. We sleep fantastically in the caravan. It's our space. We just move it around. Most people have a car. When you change it you just get a car suitable for towing. 2 litre diesel seems perfect. 45mpg without caravan, 30mpg when towing. Insurance less than £200. Running costs not much more than a small petrol car.

finbaar

Ibrahim5 said:

We are very committed caravanners. Same accomodation as a motorhome but the costs are so much less. We paid £5K for our caravan 20 years ago. Very few ongoing costs. A couple of tyres every 6 years. £100. Occasional brake shoe or wheel bearing. Don't insure it. Normally use it for longer holidays. Would still use a hotel for one night stays. We always used to cook in the caravan but now normally eat out. We sleep fantastically in the caravan. It's our space. We just move it around. Most people have a car. When you change it you just get a car suitable for towing. 2 litre diesel seems perfect. 45mpg without caravan, 30mpg when towing. Insurance less than £200. Running costs not much more than a small petrol car.

Well as people have said, it's good that we all like different things. We bought a caravan, got the car kitted with a tow bar and off we went for a long weekend to feel things out with our two children. We lasted one night of the three we booked and I sold the "thing" as soon as possible after we got back - at a loss I might add. You could say it wasn't for us.

Ibrahim5

There is a quite steep learning curve when you first start caravanning. It seems best to be done as a couple. I don't actually enjoy caravanning alone. If one of you doesn't want to be doing it and keeps moaning it could be a problem. Children generally love it but might copy the negativity of a parent who isn't interested.

BikingBud

Albermarle said:

MallyGirl said:

Cobbler_tone said:

NMallyGirl said:

Have you hired a camper first so you know what you want? We tried taking the dogs away in ours a few times but it wasn't restful. They were too big really, didn't like being confined and wouldn't settle when they could hear critters around and under the van. The last trip was taking just one dog back in May and the space was better but something went wrong with his leg which hasn't resolved so now we won't take the van away again until we are dogless.

No and I will definitely push to hire one before committing to such a large purchase. I fear the dream isn't aligned to the reality!

We already owned the van so just got it converted when we didn't need it anymore for the original purpose. As it is a SWB VW T5 it is quite snug and has no option for a shower (or a loo with any degree of privacy). On the other hand it fits into a standard parking space and under most car park barriers. You definitely need to try before spending big bucks to work out what matters.

I think they are looking at something a bit bigger than a VW.

Buy one of these and do the GT thing staying in great hotels rather than have a bus.

Nebulous2

I'm not sure why I've missed this conversation, but I am convinced that most people only like caravanning / camping if they have been brought up with it. One of my earliest memories is staying in a caravan with my grandmother and mother. Lots of other childhood memories as well, that make a campsite a very happy place. 

We have tried pretty much everything; small tent, big tent, folding camper, various caravans, and a self-build camper van - with a decent toilet. We've never made the economics stack up for buying a decent motorhome. 

Our current set-up is a fairly large caravan, towed with a van. Generalising a bit, but caravanners tend to find a base and explore for a few days, whereas motor-homers are more likely to move on every day. We've been to France / Spain / Portugal and the Netherlands - all with dogs in tow. Dog certificates and vets are a bit of a faff, but in the grand scheme of things they aren't one of the bigger expenses you have in going abroad. 

A lot of campsites on the continent have decent, often car-free cycle lanes into local towns / cities. We can park up for a few days, take the van to further afield tourist attractions and bike into the local town. 

Compromises:-

layouts are crucial. If you've never caravanned before, you wont know what you like. As an example. A traditional caravan has a U shaped lounge. Two seats along each side at the front, with a small chest in the middle, which often converts into a table. We like that. We can get our feet up, one on each side and read a book. Newer caravans have a L shaped lounge. Seating along the front, and down one side, allowing a TV to be placed on the opposite wall. As we don't watch TV that is very little use to us. 

Beds - a traditional caravan has seating which converts into a bed overnight. A regular chore was making up the bed. Advantages are space-saving and versatile. 

Many more recent caravans now have fixed beds. A bed made up all the time with a decent sprung mattress, without the work. Disadvantages are that they take up a lot of room, and the caravans are usually bigger / heavier. 

The same applies to motorhomes. I've know people who buy a motorhome, quickly go on a lengthy tour, come home and sell it to buy another with a layout that better suits what they need. 

Economics:- 

This only works if you use the damn thing. I'm convinced I know people with motorhomes that cost them over £1000 a night for every night they sleep in it. Our first decent caravan, while I was still working a demanding job, we spent over 60 nights a year in it. Now my life has changed we could probably make 90 nights or more, if we didn't also occasionally fly abroad. Buying / insuring / maintaining / servicing a caravan or motorhome will cost more than you think. The more nights you can spread that cost over the better it works. 

Campsites have grown horrendously expensive in the UK. I'm in conflict with the caravan club about how much they charge. We've seen more than 100% inflation since covid, much more than in most other areas of life. They have completely lost control of their budget and simply expect their members to pay whatever they charge.  It's quite common in the UK to now pay £50 a night for a site. That is within reach of the price for a premier inn, which doesn't come with all the expenses of running a motorhome or caravan. I've been spending more time abroad, and only using the two main UK clubs when they have special offers on. I've joked to friends that I've spent £2000 to go abroad and save £20 a night on a campsite. One advantage of a motorhome is that it is much easier to wild camp and save those costs. Saving the campsite fees is much more important at £50 a night than at £20. 

Apologies for the length of the post. This is a big subject, but our lives have been greatly enriched by travelling, camping, caravanning, exploring, biking etc. I do recognise it isn't for everyone though. 

Linton

To go back to the original topic - to avoid dying too rich I took 30% Equity Release from my house. Perhaps others could consider this.

poseidon1

Linton said:

To go back to the original topic - to avoid dying too rich I took 30% Equity Release from my house. Perhaps others could consider this.

On my todo list after my next move. 

 Coupled with impending IHT on pension pots, leaving substantial equity in the home is a gilt engraved invitation to HMRC to decimate my estate in extreme.

Bostonerimus1

Controlling estate size with the idea of dying with little to no money is a nice problem have as it means that you are probably pretty comfortable. I gift money to family regularly and give to charities and I have also annuitized some capital, but when annual investment returns are 15% plus it's actually difficult to keep up with the growth in the estate.

Somebody

poseidon1 said:

Linton said:

To go back to the original topic - to avoid dying too rich I took 30% Equity Release from my house. Perhaps others could consider this.

On my todo list after my next move. 

 Coupled with impending IHT on pension pots, leaving substantial equity in the home is a gilt engraved invitation to HMRC to decimate my estate in extreme.

So no repayment whatsoever whilst you're still alive?  

Did you take independent legal advice before proceeding?  If so, what was the cost?