Die with Zero by Bill Perkins

sheslookinhot

phlebas192 said:

Die with zero is the perfect solution, but only if you get it right. If you don't, your last days/months/years will be so awful that you will wish you had ended it all before you had run out of cash. 99% of people won't get it right.

and there is the issue. No one knows how much time we have living on this earth. We shouldn’t time the market, nor our expected demise.

Cus

cfw1994 said:

dunstonh said:

I would be concerned at several points
- age 75 is very early to move to breadline spending
- Breadline spending is harder to live with when you have been used to so much more.
- downsizing never delivers what the person expects unless it is really a significant amount.
- The pot is going down despite it being an above-average period for the stock market.    Even those with high draw rates should have seen stability or growth over the last 2 years.   So, this suggests an extremely high draw.

Maybe a level annuity would be the better option here (or lower level indexation).     Provides more early on and less later, but does continue to provide for life and doesn't require you to gamble your future lifestyle.

Some very good points, esp the one about the pot going down…we are up well over 15% YoY despite drawing down on it: the past 12 months have been very generous.

Remember you don't really have it until its in cash 😁

cfw1994

Cus said:

cfw1994 said:

dunstonh said:

I would be concerned at several points
- age 75 is very early to move to breadline spending
- Breadline spending is harder to live with when you have been used to so much more.
- downsizing never delivers what the person expects unless it is really a significant amount.
- The pot is going down despite it being an above-average period for the stock market.    Even those with high draw rates should have seen stability or growth over the last 2 years.   So, this suggests an extremely high draw.

Maybe a level annuity would be the better option here (or lower level indexation).     Provides more early on and less later, but does continue to provide for life and doesn't require you to gamble your future lifestyle.

Some very good points, esp the one about the pot going down…we are up well over 15% YoY despite drawing down on it: the past 12 months have been very generous.

Remember you don't really have it until its in cash 😁

Oh, of course - but I wouldn’t suggest everyone converts their pension to cash 🫣

Nevertheless, a nicer position to be than if we had started with a pot of £X, taken £Y over the year and the pot being worth a lot less than £(X-Y) 😉

As things stand, the pot appears to be £(X+2Y), which feels like a good year 🙏
But…l.maybe a good time to lock that 2Y value into a ‘money market fund’ to say thanks to the markets 🤪

I doubt I will be writing the same this time next year 🤷‍♂️

badger09

At 75.5 and this year having visited Caribbean, Central America, Iceland, French Riviera, Sweden & Greece (2nd visit to Sweden next month)  OP’s plan is not for me!

Oh, and as a child (when Easter eggs could only be bought at Easter!) I would still have Easter eggs left at Christmas. Definitely wouldn’t have eaten the 2nd marshmallow. 

marlot

- We go on lots of holidays and buy a new car every 1 to 2 years
- If the markets have been kind. we go on a huge holiday every year - a total blow out
- The pot is going down - that's the point

Both my parents are in good health and approaching 90.  Going to poverty income at 75 seems far too early.

I'm determined to travel while I'm healthy enough, but otherwise the key question is whether a spend makes me happier.

jim8888

I like the idea of Dying with Zero but can't stand the thought that the government takes 40% of what I've saved over the years. I already withdraw the max I can from pensions at the 20% tax band and live comfortably on that. Anything I want to take above and beyond that amount from my SIPP, for a blow out holiday, or a car, or to give away, will be taxed at 40% when I take it. I can't see a way round paying 40% so although I might die with zero, the taxman certainly won't. (There was a time I could have consoled myself that this tax would have been well spent on society, but without descending into politics, I certainly don't feel that now.) 

OldScientist

jim8888 said:

. (There was a time I could have consoled myself that this tax would have been well spent on society, but without descending into politics, I certainly don't feel that now.) 

With apologies to Monty Python, "Yeah, but apart from the roads, sewers, schools, state pensions, the legal system, and the NHS, what have taxes ever done for us"

Cobbler_tone

This thread shows how we must all process things differently.
If I live the life I choose (within reason) and then die with 1p or £10m in my name (to be blunt) I'll be dead and won't care either way. Spoiler alert, none of you will either.
I certainly wouldn't be banking cash because I didn't want to pay a higher tax band whilst I was alive though!

Ibrahim5

"That doesn't mean waste it.""We buy a new car every 1 to 2 years". Sounds like wasting it to me. I bet you have much more trouble doing that than if you just bought a really nice car and look after it.

Albermarle

jim8888 said:

I like the idea of Dying with Zero but can't stand the thought that the government takes 40% of what I've saved over the years. I already withdraw the max I can from pensions at the 20% tax band and live comfortably on that. Anything I want to take above and beyond that amount from my SIPP, for a blow out holiday, or a car, or to give away, will be taxed at 40% when I take it. I can't see a way round paying 40% so although I might die with zero, the taxman certainly won't. (There was a time I could have consoled myself that this tax would have been well spent on society, but without descending into politics, I certainly don't feel that now.) 

A correction to make the statement more accurate.