NHS pension loss after less than two years employment

Swinton1050

DRS1 said:

OP I think you should consider making the complaint.  If you did not get any communication after you left the scheme saying what your options were then I think they have messed up (I haven't checked if there is an exception for people with less than 2 years service but after you leave a scheme you are meant to get a leaver's statement showing your accrued benefits).

So I think you could argue that their mess up has led to you failing to act within the required time limit and has caused you to lose the value of the transfer payment which could otherwise have been paid.  I think I would say that the compensation for that should be to make a transfer available to you of the amount including employer contributions for a 12 month period starting on a date (the date when they make a decision under the complaints process not 3 years ago).

You would then need to find a pension which would accept the transfer (may not be that easy)

What I don't know is whether an NHS leaver's statement would include the information about transfers and time limits but I imagine it would 

I also don't know if the scheme would legally be able to make the transfer - if the time limits are written into the scheme rules. 

Yeah I will 100% complain, and base it on the lack of communication. Finding a scheme to accept it will be a future challenge if the complaint progresses. 

I have re-asked the NHSBSA to confirm if i received any correspondence about my pension and subsequent options when I left, but im 99.9% sure the answer is no

DRS1

Swinton1050 said:

DRS1 said:

OP I think you should consider making the complaint.  If you did not get any communication after you left the scheme saying what your options were then I think they have messed up (I haven't checked if there is an exception for people with less than 2 years service but after you leave a scheme you are meant to get a leaver's statement showing your accrued benefits).

So I think you could argue that their mess up has led to you failing to act within the required time limit and has caused you to lose the value of the transfer payment which could otherwise have been paid.  I think I would say that the compensation for that should be to make a transfer available to you of the amount including employer contributions for a 12 month period starting on a date (the date when they make a decision under the complaints process not 3 years ago).

You would then need to find a pension which would accept the transfer (may not be that easy)

What I don't know is whether an NHS leaver's statement would include the information about transfers and time limits but I imagine it would 

I also don't know if the scheme would legally be able to make the transfer - if the time limits are written into the scheme rules. 

Yeah I will 100% complain, and base it on the lack of communication. Finding a scheme to accept it will be a future challenge if the complaint progresses. 

I have re-asked the NHSBSA to confirm if i received any correspondence about my pension and subsequent options when I left, but im 99.9% sure the answer is no

Good luck.
It may be worth asking them for a copy of what you should have received - so you can see if it talks about the 12 month time limit.

hyubh

DRS1 said:

Swinton1050 said:

DRS1 said:

OP I think you should consider making the complaint.  If you did not get any communication after you left the scheme saying what your options were then I think they have messed up (I haven't checked if there is an exception for people with less than 2 years service but after you leave a scheme you are meant to get a leaver's statement showing your accrued benefits).

So I think you could argue that their mess up has led to you failing to act within the required time limit and has caused you to lose the value of the transfer payment which could otherwise have been paid.  I think I would say that the compensation for that should be to make a transfer available to you of the amount including employer contributions for a 12 month period starting on a date (the date when they make a decision under the complaints process not 3 years ago).

You would then need to find a pension which would accept the transfer (may not be that easy)

What I don't know is whether an NHS leaver's statement would include the information about transfers and time limits but I imagine it would 

I also don't know if the scheme would legally be able to make the transfer - if the time limits are written into the scheme rules. 

Yeah I will 100% complain, and base it on the lack of communication. Finding a scheme to accept it will be a future challenge if the complaint progresses. 

I have re-asked the NHSBSA to confirm if i received any correspondence about my pension and subsequent options when I left, but im 99.9% sure the answer is no

Good luck.
It may be worth asking them for a copy of what you should have received - so you can see if it talks about the 12 month time limit.

Not sure why you are encouraging this...? If the OP lost their starter documentation, it takes a few clicks to see things spelt out on the scheme website (https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/member-hub/leaving-or-taking-break-scheme, first PDF link).

Marcon

Swinton1050 said:

DRS1 said:

OP I think you should consider making the complaint.  If you did not get any communication after you left the scheme saying what your options were then I think they have messed up (I haven't checked if there is an exception for people with less than 2 years service but after you leave a scheme you are meant to get a leaver's statement showing your accrued benefits).

So I think you could argue that their mess up has led to you failing to act within the required time limit and has caused you to lose the value of the transfer payment which could otherwise have been paid.  I think I would say that the compensation for that should be to make a transfer available to you of the amount including employer contributions for a 12 month period starting on a date (the date when they make a decision under the complaints process not 3 years ago).

You would then need to find a pension which would accept the transfer (may not be that easy)

What I don't know is whether an NHS leaver's statement would include the information about transfers and time limits but I imagine it would 

I also don't know if the scheme would legally be able to make the transfer - if the time limits are written into the scheme rules. 

Yeah I will 100% complain, and base it on the lack of communication. Finding a scheme to accept it will be a future challenge if the complaint progresses. 

I have re-asked the NHSBSA to confirm if i received any correspondence about my pension and subsequent options when I left, but im 99.9% sure the answer is no

Why do you think it'll be a challenge? There are no safeguarded benefits, so pretty much any scheme will be willing to accept such a transfer.

DRS1

hyubh said:

DRS1 said:

Swinton1050 said:

DRS1 said:

OP I think you should consider making the complaint.  If you did not get any communication after you left the scheme saying what your options were then I think they have messed up (I haven't checked if there is an exception for people with less than 2 years service but after you leave a scheme you are meant to get a leaver's statement showing your accrued benefits).

So I think you could argue that their mess up has led to you failing to act within the required time limit and has caused you to lose the value of the transfer payment which could otherwise have been paid.  I think I would say that the compensation for that should be to make a transfer available to you of the amount including employer contributions for a 12 month period starting on a date (the date when they make a decision under the complaints process not 3 years ago).

You would then need to find a pension which would accept the transfer (may not be that easy)

What I don't know is whether an NHS leaver's statement would include the information about transfers and time limits but I imagine it would 

I also don't know if the scheme would legally be able to make the transfer - if the time limits are written into the scheme rules. 

Yeah I will 100% complain, and base it on the lack of communication. Finding a scheme to accept it will be a future challenge if the complaint progresses. 

I have re-asked the NHSBSA to confirm if i received any correspondence about my pension and subsequent options when I left, but im 99.9% sure the answer is no

Good luck.
It may be worth asking them for a copy of what you should have received - so you can see if it talks about the 12 month time limit.

Not sure why you are encouraging this...? If the OP lost their starter documentation, it takes a few clicks to see things spelt out on the scheme website (https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/member-hub/leaving-or-taking-break-scheme, first PDF link).

If you know to look for something it may be easy to find it but without a prompt (such as a leaver statement) you may not know that you are meant to look for it or do anything about it.

How many people know about the need for two years qualifying service?  Yes people involved in pensions know but your average scheme member ...?

How many people know that schemes like the NHS scheme have a transfer option which includes the benefit of employer contributions when you have left with less than 2 years qualifying service?  That is not a thing you find outside public sector schemes as far as I am aware.  So maybe even some pensions people won't know about it.

So if the scheme accepts that they should have provided the OP with something they didn't provide and the OP would have taken action if he had received the information they failed to provide then the scheme has a responsibility to compensate the OP for their failure. 

You may say the OP should have known about it and could have found out about easily enough by looking in the right place.  And I am not saying that the scheme won't say that as well.  Indeed the complaint may fail but it is arguable enough to pursue and I had the impression the OP was going to give up.

DRS1

Marcon said:

Swinton1050 said:

DRS1 said:

OP I think you should consider making the complaint.  If you did not get any communication after you left the scheme saying what your options were then I think they have messed up (I haven't checked if there is an exception for people with less than 2 years service but after you leave a scheme you are meant to get a leaver's statement showing your accrued benefits).

So I think you could argue that their mess up has led to you failing to act within the required time limit and has caused you to lose the value of the transfer payment which could otherwise have been paid.  I think I would say that the compensation for that should be to make a transfer available to you of the amount including employer contributions for a 12 month period starting on a date (the date when they make a decision under the complaints process not 3 years ago).

You would then need to find a pension which would accept the transfer (may not be that easy)

What I don't know is whether an NHS leaver's statement would include the information about transfers and time limits but I imagine it would 

I also don't know if the scheme would legally be able to make the transfer - if the time limits are written into the scheme rules. 

Yeah I will 100% complain, and base it on the lack of communication. Finding a scheme to accept it will be a future challenge if the complaint progresses. 

I have re-asked the NHSBSA to confirm if i received any correspondence about my pension and subsequent options when I left, but im 99.9% sure the answer is no

Why do you think it'll be a challenge? There are no safeguarded rights, so pretty much any scheme will be willing to accept such a transfer.

That may have been my fault saying it may not be easy.  I think the NHS scheme is still a DB scheme and I seem to recall someone having an issue getting this sort of transfer through  because people thought it was a DB to DC transfer requiring advice.  I know someone on here explained that it wasn't (maybe it was you) but I am not sure how you can show that.

Marcon

DRS1 said:

Marcon said:

Swinton1050 said:

DRS1 said:

OP I think you should consider making the complaint.  If you did not get any communication after you left the scheme saying what your options were then I think they have messed up (I haven't checked if there is an exception for people with less than 2 years service but after you leave a scheme you are meant to get a leaver's statement showing your accrued benefits).

So I think you could argue that their mess up has led to you failing to act within the required time limit and has caused you to lose the value of the transfer payment which could otherwise have been paid.  I think I would say that the compensation for that should be to make a transfer available to you of the amount including employer contributions for a 12 month period starting on a date (the date when they make a decision under the complaints process not 3 years ago).

You would then need to find a pension which would accept the transfer (may not be that easy)

What I don't know is whether an NHS leaver's statement would include the information about transfers and time limits but I imagine it would 

I also don't know if the scheme would legally be able to make the transfer - if the time limits are written into the scheme rules. 

Yeah I will 100% complain, and base it on the lack of communication. Finding a scheme to accept it will be a future challenge if the complaint progresses. 

I have re-asked the NHSBSA to confirm if i received any correspondence about my pension and subsequent options when I left, but im 99.9% sure the answer is no

Why do you think it'll be a challenge? There are no safeguarded rights, so pretty much any scheme will be willing to accept such a transfer.

That may have been my fault saying it may not be easy.  I think the NHS scheme is still a DB scheme and I seem to recall someone having an issue getting this sort of transfer through  because people thought it was a DB to DC transfer requiring advice.  I know someone on here explained that it wasn't (maybe it was you) but I am not sure how you can show that.

Very easily. The leaving service statement will show if there is no vested benefit/no option to leave the benefits in the scheme, meaning there are no safeguarded benefits (and no requirement for advice however much the transfer value is).

GrubbyGirl_2

The lack of knowledge regarding pensions used to drive me crazy with my team.  NHSBSA would send out annual newsletters plus additional information as and when things changed and these used to be attached to payslips.  I would watch my staff (team of about 35 people) just rip off the leaflet and throw it in the bin without reading.  I solved the problem by telling them that they needed to read it as I would be getting one of them to present it at the monthly team meeting, and I would decide at the meeting who that would be.

The OP would have been given the information on joining the scheme plus there is the web site which they would have been told to join.  Their employer and/or NHSBSA cannot be held responsible for them not reading what they had been given.  A hard and expensive lesson.

Marcon

Swinton1050 said:

Hi all, looking for some advice here.

Long story short, I've recently learned that for entitlement to an NHS pension, you must be employed for over two years. In my situation, I was employed for one year and contributed the whole time.

My understanding as of now is that I had a 12month time frame to transfer my pension contributions out (including NHS employer contributions), otherwise I lose the right to employer contributions.

This was not communicated to me at the time I left the organisation, and as a result I have lost 13 months worth of employer contributions from the NHS. I asked the NHSBSA for written correspondence where this was explained to me, but they instead directed me towards their complaints procedure (which I think says it all).

Has anyone else lost out on thousands of pounds because of this? And any advice on how to proceed?

Thanks in advance for any help

What it says is that the scheme isn't about to capitulate - and they won't necessarily have, or need to have, personalised documentation.  

The Pensions Ombudsman takes a fairly tough stance where there is plenty of information available at the time of joining, during the period of membership and where a scheme sends leaver information automatically. See eg https://www.pensions-ombudsman.org.uk/sites/default/files/decisions/PO-20917.pdf  You may have received such a letter (?did you change your address and if so did you notify the scheme?) and simply not read it - the most likely explanation, where someone hasn't read anything else relating to their pension. 

Egging you on to complain, without understanding the stance the Pensions Ombudsman is likely to take (which is where the complaints procedure would usually end if a member doesn't like the answer they get), isn't helpful and could just raise false hopes. Such encouragement also ignores the fact that If you left the scheme more than 3 years ago (?how long), you may in any case be time barred, since that 3 year period runs from when the event being complained about happened, or when someone knew, or ought to have known, about the issue.

DRS1

@Marcon makes a lot of good points.
I do not make a habit of reading the PO's decisions but I did read this one.  It seems like a bit of a stretch by the complainant and I am not surprised he lost.  I could say that the cases are not identical, though.  This one is more about being put on notice that you have to do something within a year.  So I think it has more merit.
I guess a key issue would be whether the NHS admin accepts that they did not issue a leaver statement.  If they accept that then there is some maladministration (contrast the Mr N  case).  Of course Mr N said he never got the leaver's statement and the Ombudsman concluded that it had probably been sent to him.  It is next to impossible to prove you never got something so that is a weakness but the OP should ask for proof that it was sent (and where it was sent).
The three years or more point was something I ignored and should not have done (though I wasn't thinking of the PO just the initial complaint).  I guess I could have a debate about when the OP ought to have known about the issue and perhaps that would influence the Ombudsman to exercise his discretion to hear a complaint which is otherwise late. 
Does the IDRP have a similar time limit for bringing a complaint?  Six months from the decision being complained about?
OP I think you can see how the majority view your prospects.  They may well be right.