Looking at DIY probate

sm82

I recently lost my father a week ago, and I’m staring at the probate/IHT forms feeling daunted. My mother is still alive, but won’t be any help with any of this (we’re both named as executors but she wants me to sort it all as she’s not technical at all in respect of computers).

I’ve spent the last week waiting for the death certificates which I should be able to register for tomorrow, so can then start with funeral etc, in the meantime I’ve spent poking around files trying to locate things etc. fortunately my father was fairly organised so the estate boils down to
-house (fully Owned as joint tenants with mom)
-ISA (significant)
-savings account
SIPP - outside estate
workplace defined benefit pension - again outside estate

they Have a joint bank account, which I know will just swap to being my mothers and I then intend to set up as a joint account whilst I get LPA updated and filed to help me in the future. 

A few questions spring to mind from what I’ve read so far

1. as everything is left to my mother under spousal exception (apart from some gifts to me totalling <325K nil rate band, which occurred in the last 7 years)am I correct in understanding that no IHT is payable as we meet the criteria of <3million total estate value so I can just apply direct for probate? (As IH205 form has now disappeared and I just need to give 3 figures in the probate PA1P form - gross value/net value/net qualifying)? - I can plug the figures into the gov.uk hit checker tool?

2. When I’m calculating these figures do I only include accounts etc that are in sole ownership only and for the couple of joint accounts just divide by 2?i.e 

3. The gifts to me were some investments plus some payments under the surplus income rule, which only happened for a few months due to a chance in circumstances. My question here as the surplus income etc is excempt from IhT (he has calculations and records) - do I still need to “add them” into the estate to show completeness?

4. I’m assuming as SIPP and workplace pension are outside the estate currently till 2027 I don’t even need to mention them?

5. when valuing the house contents, how precise are the HMrC wanting the values? That’s the bit that’s bothering me most.. I.e they have a teak dining table/chairs which is lovely but probably 40years old.. how the heck am I meant to put a value to it?.

6. I only need to think about any gifts in the last 7 years? Any minor gifts <250/month or which qualifies for other exceptions I just ignore? (As long as I have records/proof if HMRC queries?)

Keep_pedalling

As this is an exempt estate then you will not need to do an IHT return.

Yes you only need to provide the overall probate and IHT valuations. The gifts to you are included in the IHT total only as is his share of jointly held assets. 

I would not even bother with valuing the household goods other than putting a nominal value on them, HMRC are certainly not going to be interested. 

The pensions fall outside the estate. 

DavidT67

It cost us thousands to have our late mother's house contents cleared, so unless you've a house filled with verified antiques it will probably cost more than the contents are worth to clear.  

We did remove all personal items, items of sentimental value and a few collectibles of interest to family members.  There was a long list of categories of items charities wouldn't take, or that had strict criteria, so a lot went to recycling. 

In short, don't over value contents, and don't over think the details; HMRC has little interest in excepted estates.

Emmia

5. You'll find that secondhand furniture will fetch relatively little if you sell it - including teak. You might get a bit more if it's something like Ercol or G-Plan.

p00hsticks

sm82 said:

they Have a joint bank account, which I know will just swap to being my mothers and I then intend to set up as a joint account whilst I get LPA updated and filed to help me in the future. 

I'm sorry for your loss. 

If you mean that you intend to add yourself as a name to joint account with your mother with your mother soley funding the account then this isn't the correct way to go about things and would be contrary to the PoA, as half the money would be deemed as yours.

The correct approach would be to leave the account in her sole name, but get given access to it to be able to make payments on her behalf - the bank will probably have specific bereavement and PoA teams who will be able to arrange this for you once they have sight of the death certificate and PoA. 

p00hsticks

also, as far as I can remember (having been in a similar position a couple of years ago), even though as joint tenants the house will pass directly to your mother, half of the value still needs to be declared on the probate form.  

Keep_pedalling

p00hsticks said:

also, as far as I can remember (having been in a similar position a couple of years ago), even though as joint tenants the house will pass directly to your mother, half of the value still needs to be declared on the probate form.  

Only for the IHT valuation.

poseidon1

You will need to quantify the lifetime gifts to you over the last 7 years which exceed your father's annual £3,000 gifts exemption. The reason being is those excess gifts will reduce his transferable £325k NRB available when your mother eventually passes.

 I note in this regard you say the gifts to you  were less than £325k, but the inference is they were nonetheless substantial. It also suggests your mother will not have the full £1 million joint NRBs when she passes.

Suggest you study ( again?)  the 'excepted estates' criteria from the link below-

https://www.gov.uk/valuing-estate-of-someone-who-died/check-type-of-estate

bunnygo

I'm sorry for your very recent loss. Be aware that none of this is actually urgent - your priority now is the funeral and making sure things keep running. If all the household bills come from a joint account that should be simple. At this stage, just contact the bereavement team at the bank (there will be a phone number online) and they will guide you through the process. They will just need scans of the death certificate and possibly the will showing the beneficiary - is that your mother?

when you get the death certificates you should also get the 'tell us once' code and info on how to use it - you have 28 days. Use that online and it saves a lot of work; all the government and council departments, state pension, HMRC etc will be informed and will sort out what needs to be changed. you need to contact the financial institutions separately.

The ISA can be transferred to your mother within the ISA shelter under the APS scheme - make sure that happens!

valuations etc: if it is an excepted estate no-one is bothered so don't worry. Mid century furniture is worth around £50-£100 a piece when the time comes, there are dealers.

you don't mention a car; if there is one do check the insurance.

sm82

bunnygo said:

I'm sorry for your very recent loss. Be aware that none of this is actually urgent - your priority now is the funeral and making sure things keep running. If all the household bills come from a joint account that should be simple. At this stage, just contact the bereavement team at the bank (there will be a phone number online) and they will guide you through the process. They will just need scans of the death certificate and possibly the will showing the beneficiary - is that your mother?

when you get the death certificates you should also get the 'tell us once' code and info on how to use it - you have 28 days. Use that online and it saves a lot of work; all the government and council departments, state pension, HMRC etc will be informed and will sort out what needs to be changed. you need to contact the financial institutions separately.

The ISA can be transferred to your mother within the ISA shelter under the APS scheme - make sure that happens!

valuations etc: if it is an excepted estate no-one is bothered so don't worry. Mid century furniture is worth around £50-£100 a piece when the time comes, there are dealers.

you don't mention a car; if there is one do check the insurance.

Thank you for the condolences. Things have gotten a little more complicated as I'll explain. 
1. Mother according to the will is sole executrix, with myself as the second named if she is unwilling or unable. 

2. As such she told me she just wanted me to deal with everything as she has no knowledge of internet banking, where things are filed, how to use a computer etc (plus 83 and limited mobility) So whilst I was awaiting the death certificate, which I finally now have, I was gathering information, shutting a few website memberships down (i.e. like screwfix, nothing where there was any direct debit attached to or anything outgoing or that hadn't already been settled years ago) - I knew I couldn't touch like that till probate was granted. 

3. then when I drop the death certificate off at the solicitors, i was then told that that despite the "unable or unwilling" in the will, I cannot act as executor unless my mother recuses herself via a deed of renunciation... sigh. I had already started doing a few bits like notifying my dad's pension provider, just to request that they let us know what was needed to be provided to start the ball rolling arranging the spousal pension in terms of documentation - NOT to shut anything down etc - again thinking probate. This could be viewed as intermeddling...

4. I have sold her car/sorted her insurance etc for her, but that was all in her name so there should be no issue there. 

5. I have found the PA15 deed of renunciation form on the UKGov website however, which I can fill out and get signed/witnessed. I'm  curious about a couple of points - Q8 on it  - I'm assuming as she's listed as "sole exectrix" and I'm on there in case of "unable/unwilling" its the "sole executor" option I tick there?. Also she has no email address - so how do I put one in? I can't use mine can I? (unless I set one up purely for this?)

6. Also am I correct in that the PA15 only needs to be sent in with probate - doesn't need to to be produced at any other time (unless will is wanted for something), just needs lodging with the solicitors, but once its signed I can act without fear of an intermeddling charge?

Keep_pedalling

The PA15 just needs to be attached to the probate application.

Have to admit I am not sure how you answer Q8 where a back-up executor is named.